Yep, and I hate it when people compare LotR to HP.
I think Tolken (?) Outlined his books useing the Rune Gods, but we now know this isn't the case with JKR. JKR used Alchemy to outline her books. So they touch, but not over lap. Did that make sense?
Full Version: Runes
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There is a lot to read here and for those of us who have slow computers and internet connections, it takes a while. I found much of the research into folklore and archaeology to be interesting, but of limited relevance to the stories that this forum was created to discuss.
Before I go on; I want to say that I don't mean to be critical or judgmental; and I certainly don't want to offend; it's just I wouldn't want to attempt legilimency on J.K.Rowling, if for no other reason, I have too much respect for her abilities as an occlumens to think that I could get the one piece of information that I needed to make the others make sense. This is why I think that the speculation on what runes are on Professor Dumbledore's pensive are rather futile. It did give me an idea, though, to approach the question from a slightly diferent angle.
Wouldn't it be interesting, to design our own pensive, and decide what runes to put on it? I think that such a discussion would be better placed in Magical Theory, so I posted my initial thoughts there; but I wanted to come over here, to thank you all for the inspiration, and request your imput.
Before I go on; I want to say that I don't mean to be critical or judgmental; and I certainly don't want to offend; it's just I wouldn't want to attempt legilimency on J.K.Rowling, if for no other reason, I have too much respect for her abilities as an occlumens to think that I could get the one piece of information that I needed to make the others make sense. This is why I think that the speculation on what runes are on Professor Dumbledore's pensive are rather futile. It did give me an idea, though, to approach the question from a slightly diferent angle.
Wouldn't it be interesting, to design our own pensive, and decide what runes to put on it? I think that such a discussion would be better placed in Magical Theory, so I posted my initial thoughts there; but I wanted to come over here, to thank you all for the inspiration, and request your imput.
QUOTE
There is a lot to read here and for those of us who have slow computers and internet connections, it takes a while. I found much of the research into folklore and archaeology to be interesting, but of limited relevance to the stories that this forum was created to discuss.
I don't mean to be critical or judgmental either, but of limited relevance? JKR goes out of her way to have Hermione mention Ancient Runes on several occasions, so I don't see how you can say that. JKR knows what she is doing--she has a degree in classics so she knows the material inside and out. She has incorporated many of these subjects--folklore, mythology (where do you think Fenrir Grayback comes from?), the Arthurian myths and my favorite--Alchemy. Read those other threads and then come back and tell me if you still think it's not relevant.
I don't mean to sound snippy, really, but we have spent months tracking this stuff down, and we've come to greatly appreciate the work and knowlege that JKR has put into her books.
He's just trying to get us to post in his thread. I highly dout he read the whole thread or he would know that TP got the first canon from Hermione and JKR drops more hints with Luna.
He did do me a favor though, I do really need to get back to my Rune studies and figuare what the luna clues mean.
Also, I don't really think Professor_Nigellus ment anything he said, because if he truely believed that he wouldn't of stolen MemyslfnI's idea.
He did do me a favor though, I do really need to get back to my Rune studies and figuare what the luna clues mean.
Also, I don't really think Professor_Nigellus ment anything he said, because if he truely believed that he wouldn't of stolen MemyslfnI's idea.
Hey guys, just a quick modly reminder of Rule #1:
Thank-you and carry on!
Asphodel Wormwood. :wizard:
QUOTE
1. Be nice. This is our most important and most strictly enforced rule. We respect and embrace everyone's right to disagree and the spirited discussions that come out of differences of opinion, but there is never an excuse to be rude/derogatory/insulting. Offending comments (and words) will be deleted right away and the offender warned; those who persist will be banned. The TLC forum, like the TLC comments, is to be a place where enthusiastic and intelligent minds can come together, something no one can do while fighting. Please take a moment to remember that without differences of opinion the world would be a very boring place.
Thank-you and carry on!
Asphodel Wormwood. :wizard:
Asphodel, thanks for the reminder. We're trying, honest.
just read that the runic language had a preferred wood to cut their symbols in. Rowan Wood. I am still convinced that the missing horcrux is Rowena's and it was ash or rowan wood. technically the same wood.
I agree, M! It just all seems to fit with the hallows and the Runes. also there are clues in HBP the seem to lead to this, one is Ollivander is missing. What would LV want with the guy that gave Harry free ice cream?
I thought about the wand in Ollivanders window possibly being the RR horcrux and thought of the "weighing of the wands" in GoF. Does anyone think that Ollivander would know if a wand was tampered with? he and his family have been fine wand makers since B.C.
I still think it is the wand but I am not sure if is the one in the window.
On the other hand he could have fled with the wand? WHo Knows!!!
I still think it is the wand but I am not sure if is the one in the window.
On the other hand he could have fled with the wand? WHo Knows!!!
M, I PM'd you earlier with these thoughts. Thanks for bearing with me. 
The idea of the wand as the RR Horcrux is a really good one, and the wand might just be Luna's, or even her mother's, (she described her mother as a "quite extraordinary witch") if she inherited it as Neville did his father's. Luna's wand is mentioned a couple of times in OotP (usually behind her left ear for safekeeping!).
She could be, as you said, a descendant of Rowena Ravenclaw's. Also, Luna might be taking Ancient Runes as one of her subjects at Hogwarts.
The idea of the wand as the RR Horcrux is a really good one, and the wand might just be Luna's, or even her mother's, (she described her mother as a "quite extraordinary witch") if she inherited it as Neville did his father's. Luna's wand is mentioned a couple of times in OotP (usually behind her left ear for safekeeping!).
She could be, as you said, a descendant of Rowena Ravenclaw's. Also, Luna might be taking Ancient Runes as one of her subjects at Hogwarts.
I was just doing some reading on the ogham alphabet and I came across this. It's eerily similar to ehwaz:
The pronounciation is only missing the Z. I'm wondering if there is any connection there?
Edited to add: M, clean out your mailbox!!
QUOTE
Iodhadh
(EE-wah), yew - The yew (Taxus baccata L.) is a slow-growing conifer, living as long as 1000 years and reaching 20 m (65 feet). It is much less common in recent times because of overharvesting (its hard, springy wood was the source of English longbows). The evergreen needles are very broad, and the seeds are produced in red, berry-like cones. Yews are toxic; one of the toxic compounds, taxol, is an effective treatment for some cancers. Yew is in the Yew family (Taxaceae).
(EE-wah), yew - The yew (Taxus baccata L.) is a slow-growing conifer, living as long as 1000 years and reaching 20 m (65 feet). It is much less common in recent times because of overharvesting (its hard, springy wood was the source of English longbows). The evergreen needles are very broad, and the seeds are produced in red, berry-like cones. Yews are toxic; one of the toxic compounds, taxol, is an effective treatment for some cancers. Yew is in the Yew family (Taxaceae).
The pronounciation is only missing the Z. I'm wondering if there is any connection there?
Edited to add: M, clean out your mailbox!!
I did!!! Spic and Span!!! Here is what I found out is the difference:
The first could represent the trio. The latter, LV.
QUOTE
Ehwaz- Harmony, teamwork, trust, loyalty... Iodhadh (Yew)- Transitions, passing, dying, fading away, A gateway, rebirth, renewal
The first could represent the trio. The latter, LV.
JKR mentions the Yew tree in her website. She sights it's long life (there are some in England over 1000 yrs old) and the fact that it is concidered evil.
amazing how the pronunciation is so close! good attributes, goodness, loyalty trust are opposite to death, dying. dopplengers maybe? (I know I spelled that wrong)
I’m new to this so I’m sorry if this topic has been covered, but as stated above, Hermione confused “ehwaz” with “eihwaz.” “Eihwaz” refers to protection and “ehwaz” refers to twins.
Does anyone else think that this is a hint that Harry and Neville are actually twins? One was born on July 30th and the other July 31st? One before midnight, and the other after midnight? (And, Neville given to the Longbottom’s to raise for his protection.)
I think I did hear or read somewhere that Frank Longbottom was going to be important in the last book.
Does anyone else think that this is a hint that Harry and Neville are actually twins? One was born on July 30th and the other July 31st? One before midnight, and the other after midnight? (And, Neville given to the Longbottom’s to raise for his protection.)
I think I did hear or read somewhere that Frank Longbottom was going to be important in the last book.
QUOTE
Does anyone else think that this is a hint that Harry and Neville are actually twins? One was born on July 30th and the other July 31st? One before midnight, and the other after midnight? (And, Neville given to the Longbottom’s to raise for his protection.)
No. I think, if anything, it would refer to Fred and George, who are twins, or the Patil twins. I don't think Harry and Neville are twins; Neville is described in OOTP as looking like Alice.
QUOTE
No. I think, if anything, it would refer to Fred and George, who are twins, or the Patil twins. I don't think Harry and Neville are twins; Neville is described in OOTP as looking like Alice.
Or DD and his brother!Arian found the spell that Lily used to protecet Harry and here it is:
http://www.geocities.com/jkarrah/Protection.html[/url]
I think I also found something important. Runes have to be casted at different angles. Maybe the reason why Lily didn't fight is because she was trying to get LV at the right angle? What we do know about Lily it's strange that she didn't fight. There has to be a reason for this. I think this maybe is the reason.
My source on angles
That could be, firephoenix. Maybe he was too close or something. I'm still reading the link but it sounds like he was directly in front of her, which I get the impression doesn't work for runecasting.
We assume that, but we don't really know. All of the beds in my house would be an angle shot from the door.
But if Lily was standing directly in front of the crib, he couldn't get a clear shot at Harry. She might have been at a 90 degree angle to him. Damn, where's geometry when you need it??
I have read through this thread but find it hard to follow some of the thoughts, and am not sure at all I agree on all of the conclusions. But without going into the previous discussions, I'd just like to add an observation related to the runic alphabet which I can't see has been made before.
I took a look at runes (the Elder Futhark) because of what Hermione says about her exam in OP31:
When I looked up Eihwaz and Ehwaz, I saw that these two runes are of totally different shape, they just sound alike. As to what Hermione says, I take it mainly to be another pointer from the author in the direction that partnership, cooperation will be of major importance for the end of the story, rather than one person alone achieving the goal.
BUT - looking over the rune alphabet, it struck me that from Eihwaz (the 13th rune) to Ehwaz (the 19th rune) there are SEVEN runes, the meanings of which to me seem to correspond roughly to the themes of the seven books.
Alphabet and meanings: http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/meanings.html
1.Eihwaz - yew tree - strength, enlightenment. (Getting the wand, discovering your strength.)
Reversed: Confusion, weakness. (Quirrel/Voldemort)
2. Perthro - cup, vagina - secrets, hidden things etc. (Going down into the Chamber of secrets.)
Reversed: Stagnation, loneliness. (Diary)
3. Algiz - elk, protection - shield, defense etc. Dementor attacks, patronus (cf elk - stag!).
Reversed: Hidden danger (Scabbers)
4. Sowilo - the sun - success, goals achieved, honor, sword of flame, cleansing fire etc. (The goblet of fire, winning the Triwizard tournament)
Opposition: Bad counsel, false success etc. (Crouch, Triwizard tournament turning out different than expected)
5. Tiwaz- Tyr, the sky god - leadership and authority. (Harry leader of the DA.)
Reversed: Blocking of energy and creative flow, over-analysis etc. (Harry's mind-battle, occlumency)
6. Berkano - Berchta, the birch goddess - Renewal etc, love affair. (Renewed contact with Dd, love spiring with Ginny.)
Reversed: Anxiety about someone close to you, loss of control, deceit.
7. Ehwaz - Horse, two horses - Transportation, development, teamwork. (We're likely to see a good deal of transportation between different places - and also teamwork.)
Reversed: "This is not really a negative rune. A change is perhaps craved."
Out of pure curiosity, I also took a look at what happens if one STARTS at Ehwaz and goes seven runes forwards. (Because in a twisted way that seems to be kind of what Voldemort did, only he made up a team consisting of himself and himself and himself and himself and... well...)
This actually proved interesting, too, because then we get:
2. Mannaz = man, the self. Depression and self-delusion, cunning and slyness.
3. Laguz = water, or a leek. Success in travel and acquisition (gathering of hx objects?), but with the possiblity of loss. Wrong decisions, poor judgements, withering, obsession, perversity etc.
4. Ingwaz = Ing, the earth god. A time of relief, but also impotence. (LV's "rebirth". And note that the Earth God takes the place of the Sun compared to if you start with Eiwhaz.)
5. Dagaz = day or dawn. Daylight clarity as opposed to nighttime, the place where opposites meet. (Voldemort meets Dumbledore at the end of book 5.)
6. Othala = ancestral property. Group prosperity (the DE), but Reversed: lack of order, totalitarianism, slavery etc. (We also have a lot of "ancestral property" wrongfully aquired in book 6, the story of how LV came into possession of the horcruxes.)
7. (Going back to the first rune) Fehu = Domestic cattle, wealth. Possessions won or earned. (LV didn't earn any of his possessions, he stole them.) Reversed: Loss of personal property, esteem etc. Greed, burnout, atrophy, discord, cowardice, stupidity, dullness, poverty, slavery, bondage.
Conclusion: I think Voldemort is going to have to face a lot of "reversed" in book 7... (Whether my runic interpretation is "correct" or not...
)
I took a look at runes (the Elder Futhark) because of what Hermione says about her exam in OP31:
QUOTE
I mis-translated ehwaz. It means partnership, not defence. I mixed it up with eihwaz. --- It could be the one mistake that makes the difference between a pass and a fail.
When I looked up Eihwaz and Ehwaz, I saw that these two runes are of totally different shape, they just sound alike. As to what Hermione says, I take it mainly to be another pointer from the author in the direction that partnership, cooperation will be of major importance for the end of the story, rather than one person alone achieving the goal.
BUT - looking over the rune alphabet, it struck me that from Eihwaz (the 13th rune) to Ehwaz (the 19th rune) there are SEVEN runes, the meanings of which to me seem to correspond roughly to the themes of the seven books.
Alphabet and meanings: http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/meanings.html
1.Eihwaz - yew tree - strength, enlightenment. (Getting the wand, discovering your strength.)
Reversed: Confusion, weakness. (Quirrel/Voldemort)
2. Perthro - cup, vagina - secrets, hidden things etc. (Going down into the Chamber of secrets.)
Reversed: Stagnation, loneliness. (Diary)
3. Algiz - elk, protection - shield, defense etc. Dementor attacks, patronus (cf elk - stag!).
Reversed: Hidden danger (Scabbers)
4. Sowilo - the sun - success, goals achieved, honor, sword of flame, cleansing fire etc. (The goblet of fire, winning the Triwizard tournament)
Opposition: Bad counsel, false success etc. (Crouch, Triwizard tournament turning out different than expected)
5. Tiwaz- Tyr, the sky god - leadership and authority. (Harry leader of the DA.)
Reversed: Blocking of energy and creative flow, over-analysis etc. (Harry's mind-battle, occlumency)
6. Berkano - Berchta, the birch goddess - Renewal etc, love affair. (Renewed contact with Dd, love spiring with Ginny.)
Reversed: Anxiety about someone close to you, loss of control, deceit.
7. Ehwaz - Horse, two horses - Transportation, development, teamwork. (We're likely to see a good deal of transportation between different places - and also teamwork.)
Reversed: "This is not really a negative rune. A change is perhaps craved."
Out of pure curiosity, I also took a look at what happens if one STARTS at Ehwaz and goes seven runes forwards. (Because in a twisted way that seems to be kind of what Voldemort did, only he made up a team consisting of himself and himself and himself and himself and... well...)
This actually proved interesting, too, because then we get:
2. Mannaz = man, the self. Depression and self-delusion, cunning and slyness.
3. Laguz = water, or a leek. Success in travel and acquisition (gathering of hx objects?), but with the possiblity of loss. Wrong decisions, poor judgements, withering, obsession, perversity etc.
4. Ingwaz = Ing, the earth god. A time of relief, but also impotence. (LV's "rebirth". And note that the Earth God takes the place of the Sun compared to if you start with Eiwhaz.)
5. Dagaz = day or dawn. Daylight clarity as opposed to nighttime, the place where opposites meet. (Voldemort meets Dumbledore at the end of book 5.)
6. Othala = ancestral property. Group prosperity (the DE), but Reversed: lack of order, totalitarianism, slavery etc. (We also have a lot of "ancestral property" wrongfully aquired in book 6, the story of how LV came into possession of the horcruxes.)
7. (Going back to the first rune) Fehu = Domestic cattle, wealth. Possessions won or earned. (LV didn't earn any of his possessions, he stole them.) Reversed: Loss of personal property, esteem etc. Greed, burnout, atrophy, discord, cowardice, stupidity, dullness, poverty, slavery, bondage.
Conclusion: I think Voldemort is going to have to face a lot of "reversed" in book 7... (Whether my runic interpretation is "correct" or not...
)
wow, very interesting thread. toujours pur, i'm stunned and humbled by your knowledge.
using the link spectrespecs provided, i found these two pics:
(eihwaz)
(sowilo)
i'm very new to the subject of runes, but in my opinion, sowilo looks more like harry's scar than eihwaz. sowilo definitely could pass for lightning, whereas eihwaz looks more like a crooked "S."
on the other hand, the definition for eihwaz seems to fit the story more clearly. according to the sunnyway website, eihwaz is defined:
yew tree = obviously, voldie's wand.
defense, protection = lily's sacrifice.
"The driving force to acquire, providing motivation and a sense of purpose. Indicates that you have set your sights on a reasonable target and can achieve your goals." = voldie marking harry as his equal, and handing harry unique tools for the job, in dumbledore's words (HBP). In other words, by killing james and lily and then turning his wand on harry, voldie not only ensured that harry could achieve his goals (of destroying the horcruxes and finally voldie) by marking him as his equal; he also gave harry the sense of purpose (to avenge his parents, and later, cedric, sirius, dumbledore) motivating him to finish voldie himself. The driving force for harry, hence, is love.
destruction and weakness = the rebounding spell rendering voldie bodiless and helpless. this weakness also extends to his inability to experience and acknowledge love, which caused him to underestimate lily, and will also be his downfall at harry's hands (according to dumbledore).
it's very linear when you look at it like that. the whole godric's hollow scene is mapped out in this one rune definition. my explanation is probably confusing, but hopefully makes sense.
using the link spectrespecs provided, i found these two pics:
(eihwaz) (sowilo)i'm very new to the subject of runes, but in my opinion, sowilo looks more like harry's scar than eihwaz. sowilo definitely could pass for lightning, whereas eihwaz looks more like a crooked "S."
on the other hand, the definition for eihwaz seems to fit the story more clearly. according to the sunnyway website, eihwaz is defined:
QUOTE
Eihwaz: (EI: Yew tree.) Strength, reliability, dependability, trustworthiness. Enlightenment, endurance. Defense, protection. The driving force to acquire, providing motivation and a sense of purpose. Indicates that you have set your sights on a reasonable target and can achieve your goals. An honest man who can be relied upon. Eihwaz Reversed or Merkstave: Confusion, destruction, dissatisfaction, weakness.
I bolded the significant parts. Here is my feeble translation:yew tree = obviously, voldie's wand.
defense, protection = lily's sacrifice.
"The driving force to acquire, providing motivation and a sense of purpose. Indicates that you have set your sights on a reasonable target and can achieve your goals." = voldie marking harry as his equal, and handing harry unique tools for the job, in dumbledore's words (HBP). In other words, by killing james and lily and then turning his wand on harry, voldie not only ensured that harry could achieve his goals (of destroying the horcruxes and finally voldie) by marking him as his equal; he also gave harry the sense of purpose (to avenge his parents, and later, cedric, sirius, dumbledore) motivating him to finish voldie himself. The driving force for harry, hence, is love.
destruction and weakness = the rebounding spell rendering voldie bodiless and helpless. this weakness also extends to his inability to experience and acknowledge love, which caused him to underestimate lily, and will also be his downfall at harry's hands (according to dumbledore).
it's very linear when you look at it like that. the whole godric's hollow scene is mapped out in this one rune definition. my explanation is probably confusing, but hopefully makes sense.
QUOTE
i'm very new to the subject of runes, but in my opinion, sowilo looks more like harry's scar than eihwaz. sowilo definitely could pass for lightning, whereas eihwaz looks more like a crooked "S."
You know what, madam robyn, I realized that after I'd already posted it in the other thread. It does look more like sowilo.
QUOTE
The driving force to acquire, providing motivation and a sense of purpose. Indicates that you have set your sights on a reasonable target and can achieve your goals." = voldie marking harry as his equal, and handing harry unique tools for the job, in dumbledore's words (HBP). In other words, by killing james and lily and then turning his wand on harry, voldie not only ensured that harry could achieve his goals (of destroying the horcruxes and finally voldie) by marking him as his equal; he also gave harry the sense of purpose (to avenge his parents, and later, cedric, sirius, dumbledore) motivating him to finish voldie himself. The driving force for harry, hence, is love.
destruction and weakness = the rebounding spell rendering voldie bodiless and helpless. this weakness also extends to his inability to experience and acknowledge love, which caused him to underestimate lily, and will also be his downfall at harry's hands (according to dumbledore).
it's very linear when you look at it like that. the whole godric's hollow scene is mapped out in this one rune definition. my explanation is probably confusing, but hopefully makes sense.
destruction and weakness = the rebounding spell rendering voldie bodiless and helpless. this weakness also extends to his inability to experience and acknowledge love, which caused him to underestimate lily, and will also be his downfall at harry's hands (according to dumbledore).
it's very linear when you look at it like that. the whole godric's hollow scene is mapped out in this one rune definition. my explanation is probably confusing, but hopefully makes sense.
I agree. In yet another thread (The Unexplained Transfer, Magical Theory, I think) I had the really crazy off the wall idea that Lily's protection and Harry's scar was caused by a runic spell.
QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Jun 26 2006, 10:08 AM) [snapback]866329[/snapback]
I agree. In yet another thread (The Unexplained Transfer, Magical Theory, I think) I had the really crazy off the wall idea that Lily's protection and Harry's scar was caused by a runic spell.
We also discussed it somewhat in the Cursed Scars thread in January. If I remember right, it was a very interesting theory.
I remember that TD!
The scar was discussed- at least I did
- that it was done with a rune in an annointing way~ similar to Christian cerimonies. The act of annointing a child was to keep there soul "safe" and protected from evil????? Or if the child was to perish it was to keep the soul intact and with "grace" in order to ascend???
hmmmmmm sounds alot like Harry and his "purity". Is the Rune placed there for the same reason?
The scar was discussed- at least I did
- that it was done with a rune in an annointing way~ similar to Christian cerimonies. The act of annointing a child was to keep there soul "safe" and protected from evil????? Or if the child was to perish it was to keep the soul intact and with "grace" in order to ascend???hmmmmmm sounds alot like Harry and his "purity". Is the Rune placed there for the same reason?
Okay, right church, wrong pew. These threads are really starting to run together for me. I feel like I'm going senile!
That was it, Alchemist Apprentice. The question is: Did Lily have time to do that? While James was fighting LV, did she have the time and the levelheadedness to think of that and execute it? My idea was that once she "anointed" him, the AK activated the protection and caused it to backfire. The scar is the result of the activation of the runic spell, in other words.
QUOTE
that it was done with a rune in an annointing way~ similar to Christian cerimonies. The act of annointing a child was to keep there soul "safe" and protected from evil????? Or if the child was to perish it was to keep the soul intact and with "grace" in order to ascend???
hmmmmmm sounds alot like Harry and his "purity". Is the Rune placed there for the same reason?
hmmmmmm sounds alot like Harry and his "purity". Is the Rune placed there for the same reason?
That was it, Alchemist Apprentice. The question is: Did Lily have time to do that? While James was fighting LV, did she have the time and the levelheadedness to think of that and execute it? My idea was that once she "anointed" him, the AK activated the protection and caused it to backfire. The scar is the result of the activation of the runic spell, in other words.
I’m trying to reconcile the theory of a “rune anointing” with JKR’s statement that LV “did offer” Lily the chance to walk away and live. JKR also says that “she was given the time to choose.” (Memerson Interview) Did Lily use her time to choose to anoint Harry’s forehead? 
Edited to add an important "n" in the quote.
Edited to add an important "n" in the quote.
No, no--that's not what I meant, although I see what you're saying. I'm saying that prior to that point, when LV and James were still fighting, James says something like, "Take Harry and go. I'll hold him off." Instead of running, she may have come up with some kind of protection for Harry based on runes. She may well have had time to get away, yet she didn't choose to take it.
It's just an odd theory I had--I admit there are a lot of holes in it that I never worked out, and I hadn't even thought about it in a long time.
Edited because I can't talk, type or communicate in any sensical way today.
It's just an odd theory I had--I admit there are a lot of holes in it that I never worked out, and I hadn't even thought about it in a long time.
Edited because I can't talk, type or communicate in any sensical way today.
I don't know if this is the right time to rekindle this discussion, but wouldn't a runic spell completely undermine the ENTIRE sacrifice/love protection thing that carries on throughout the series, and is even presented in some of these (rather impressive) other the-scar-is-a-rune theories?
QUOTE(Jonodbc @ Jun 29 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]870206[/snapback]
I don't know if this is the right time to rekindle this discussion, but wouldn't a runic spell completely undermine the ENTIRE sacrifice/love protection thing that carries on throughout the series, and is even presented in some of these (rather impressive) other the-scar-is-a-rune theories?
QUOTE
ES: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?
JKR: Mhm.
ES: Why?
JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer; you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There's your answer - you've just answered your own question - because she could have lived - and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family, but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way. I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense, her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice. -
ES: And James didn't.
JKR: Did he clearly die to try and protect Harry specifically given a clear choice? No. It's a subtle distinction and there's slightly more to it than that but that's most of the answer.
JKR: Mhm.
ES: Why?
JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer; you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There's your answer - you've just answered your own question - because she could have lived - and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family, but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way. I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense, her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice. -
ES: And James didn't.
JKR: Did he clearly die to try and protect Harry specifically given a clear choice? No. It's a subtle distinction and there's slightly more to it than that but that's most of the answer.
I think the "slightly more" could very well be what Lily does in the time she is given to make her choice and the fact that she seals her actions and decision with her very life.
very good point, towerdweller. i've thought for awhile that the "slightly more to it" was about the reason lily would have been spared (which was, in my opinion, because snape asked that she be spared), rather than the protection itself, but it could have something to do with the latter.
and i agree that the use of the rune would have only boosted the power of her love protection, not undermine it.
by the way, all we've been told about lily's sacrifice is that it is "very old magic." could the very old magic she used actually be a direct "rune spell" (if there is such a thing)? one that incorporates the element of love that is intrinsic in her sacrifice? i guess i could compare what i'm getting at to Riddikulus, where you have to be thinking of something funny for it to work, or the Patronus Charm, where you have to think of something happy. here, you would have to fill yourself up with love for the person you want to protect, then "cast" the rune.....
ok, feel free to rip this apart now.
and i agree that the use of the rune would have only boosted the power of her love protection, not undermine it.
by the way, all we've been told about lily's sacrifice is that it is "very old magic." could the very old magic she used actually be a direct "rune spell" (if there is such a thing)? one that incorporates the element of love that is intrinsic in her sacrifice?
i guess i could compare what i'm getting at to Riddikulus, where you have to be thinking of something funny for it to work, or the Patronus Charm, where you have to think of something happy. here, you would have to fill yourself up with love for the person you want to protect, then "cast" the rune..... ok, feel free to rip this apart now.
Personally I think "protected by the power of love" has a much better feel to it than "protected by the power of love and runes". Judging by the recollections Harry has when approached by the Dementors, there doesn't seem to be time for any kind of runic spell to be cast or drawn.
QUOTE(Jonodbc @ Jul 7 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]877440[/snapback]
Personally I think "protected by the power of love" has a much better feel to it than "protected by the power of love and runes". Judging by the recollections Harry has when approached by the Dementors, there doesn't seem to be time for any kind of runic spell to be cast or drawn.
JKR herself has pointed in this direction since Hermione began talk her class on runes ... all the way to now and Luna studying them upside down. Did you know that even the Unbreakable vow is based on a Rune stone? Odin Stone
The Odin Oath
But aside from its healing and magical powers, the Odin Stone was perhaps best known for the part it played sealing agreements and binding marriages and unions.
People from every corner of Orkney, in particular young lovers, would visit the stone to make their vows absolute by clasping hands through the hole and swearing the Odin Oath.
I'm glad you brought that up again, Liz. Here's a link if anyone's interested: The Odin Stone.
It was supposed to have all kinds of magical properties:
"It was said that a child passed through the hole when young would never shake with palsy in old age. Up to the time of its destruction, it was customary to leave some offering on visiting the stone, such as a piece of bread, or cheese, or a rag, or even a stone."
G H Black
It was also said to be able to pass its power on to mortals:
But the Odin Stone was best known for its role in binding agreements:
It was supposed to have all kinds of magical properties:
"It was said that a child passed through the hole when young would never shake with palsy in old age. Up to the time of its destruction, it was customary to leave some offering on visiting the stone, such as a piece of bread, or cheese, or a rag, or even a stone."
G H Black
It was also said to be able to pass its power on to mortals:
QUOTE
One old folktale tells how a farmer from Turriedale in the parish of Evie:
"for nine moons at midnight, when the moon was full, went nine times on his bare knees around the Odin Stone of Stainness. And for nine moons, at full moon, he looked through the hole of the Odin Stone and wished he might get the power of seeing Hildaland."
Later in the tale, the farmer's wish is granted and he drives the finfolk from their magical island, claiming it for the Christian God and renaming it Eynhallow - Holy Island.
"for nine moons at midnight, when the moon was full, went nine times on his bare knees around the Odin Stone of Stainness. And for nine moons, at full moon, he looked through the hole of the Odin Stone and wished he might get the power of seeing Hildaland."
Later in the tale, the farmer's wish is granted and he drives the finfolk from their magical island, claiming it for the Christian God and renaming it Eynhallow - Holy Island.
But the Odin Stone was best known for its role in binding agreements:
QUOTE
Orcadians would trek out to the ancient Stenness stone to make their vows absolute by clasping hands through the hole and swearing the "Odin Oath".
This oath was an utterly unbreakable pact, the words to which are now unfortunately lost.
But although the words may be gone, the extremes people would go to before breaking their vows is well documented.
From a paper dated 1774, we learn:
"This ceremony was held so very sacred in those times that the person who dared to break the engagement made here was counted infamous, and excluded all society."
Another case, recorded in 1781, involved a young man who had seduced a girl under promise of marriage. The girl, who fell pregnant, was subequently deserted:
"The young man was called before session; the elders were particularly severe. Being asked by the minister the cause of so much rigor, they answered:
'You do not know what a bad man this is; he has broke the promise of Odin.'
Being further asked what they meant by the promise of Odin, they put him in mind of the stone at Stenhouse, with the round hole in it; and added, that it was customary, when promises were made, for the contracting parties to join hands through this hole, and the promises so made were called the promises of Odin."
Principal Gordon, Scots College, Paris
Archaeologia Scotica Vol I - 1792
A brief mention of the Odin Oath is also found in the ancient Orkney ballad, The Play o' de Lathie Odivere:
"An swore bae him dat hang on tree' to marry her"
"He bragged near and far he won his wife bae Odin's Aith"
The reference to "him dat hang on tree" points to the Norse God Odin, who in Norse mythology hung from the World Tree, Yggdrasil, for nine nights.
A classic example of just how binding the Odin Oath once was appears in the folklore surrounding the Orkney pirate, John Gow.
While Gow was in Stromness, he supposedly fell in love with a Miss Gordon, the daughter of a local merchant. Keeping with Orcadian tradition, Miss Gordon took Gow to the Odin Stone, where they pledged their troth.
A few months later, however, Gow was captured off Eday and subsequently executed in London.
Distraught at the death of her lover, Miss Gordon is said to have travelled to London in order to touch the hand of Gow's corpse to release herself from their binding oath.
This oath was an utterly unbreakable pact, the words to which are now unfortunately lost.
But although the words may be gone, the extremes people would go to before breaking their vows is well documented.
From a paper dated 1774, we learn:
"This ceremony was held so very sacred in those times that the person who dared to break the engagement made here was counted infamous, and excluded all society."
Another case, recorded in 1781, involved a young man who had seduced a girl under promise of marriage. The girl, who fell pregnant, was subequently deserted:
"The young man was called before session; the elders were particularly severe. Being asked by the minister the cause of so much rigor, they answered:
'You do not know what a bad man this is; he has broke the promise of Odin.'
Being further asked what they meant by the promise of Odin, they put him in mind of the stone at Stenhouse, with the round hole in it; and added, that it was customary, when promises were made, for the contracting parties to join hands through this hole, and the promises so made were called the promises of Odin."
Principal Gordon, Scots College, Paris
Archaeologia Scotica Vol I - 1792
A brief mention of the Odin Oath is also found in the ancient Orkney ballad, The Play o' de Lathie Odivere:
"An swore bae him dat hang on tree' to marry her"
"He bragged near and far he won his wife bae Odin's Aith"
The reference to "him dat hang on tree" points to the Norse God Odin, who in Norse mythology hung from the World Tree, Yggdrasil, for nine nights.
A classic example of just how binding the Odin Oath once was appears in the folklore surrounding the Orkney pirate, John Gow.
While Gow was in Stromness, he supposedly fell in love with a Miss Gordon, the daughter of a local merchant. Keeping with Orcadian tradition, Miss Gordon took Gow to the Odin Stone, where they pledged their troth.
A few months later, however, Gow was captured off Eday and subsequently executed in London.
Distraught at the death of her lover, Miss Gordon is said to have travelled to London in order to touch the hand of Gow's corpse to release herself from their binding oath.
Interesting considering that Odin was known as “Oath-breaker.”
For me, the fact that the scar on Harry’s forehead does fit with the idea of the Yew rune is intriguing because of the connection between Death and Love in mythology.
According to most stories, if Death chooses to take someone, and one who loves that person elects to die in his stead, then Death will accept that exchange. If another person like LV were to attempt to kill the person that Death spared, then I don’t think Death would be to happy about that, given what usually happens to people who try to go against Death. My guess is that the spared life would be given protection via Death. It’s almost as if Harry’s scar is literally the “kiss of Death.” It would act as a seal, an outward sign that no one is allowed to touch this child at risk of his own death.
And we do have a two-part question when it comes to what happened with LV. We know that the reason that LV couldn’t kill Harry was because Lily died for him. (The exchange was accepted.) What we don’t know is why he lost all his powers. Certainly his body was taken from him, and the fragment of the soul he had must have been lost when the AK rebounded on him. Is that enough to take away power? It shouldn’t have been. If Horcruxes are all they are cracked up to be, I would think that they would prevent loss of whatever life one might have, and that should include the body. I mean, after all, if you get AK’ed very often, it seems it would be a lot of work to go get a body again, messy potions, bone of the father etc…it would get old. What LV wants isn’t money in the bank for an emergency; he wants a bulletproof vest. So I think that Horcruxes protect the body as well. Certainly, LV did not expect to get ripped from his body when he attempted to kill Harry.
So when he killed Lily he was acting in accord with what Death had accepted. Soul for a soul. But by trying to kill Harry, he goes against Death. And that just doesn’t work. Death did rebound on him and his Horcruxes, while not useless, didn’t do what he expected them to do. Why would that be?
I think the yew is more appropriately linked with Death, but not necessarily evil.
For me, the fact that the scar on Harry’s forehead does fit with the idea of the Yew rune is intriguing because of the connection between Death and Love in mythology.
According to most stories, if Death chooses to take someone, and one who loves that person elects to die in his stead, then Death will accept that exchange. If another person like LV were to attempt to kill the person that Death spared, then I don’t think Death would be to happy about that, given what usually happens to people who try to go against Death. My guess is that the spared life would be given protection via Death. It’s almost as if Harry’s scar is literally the “kiss of Death.” It would act as a seal, an outward sign that no one is allowed to touch this child at risk of his own death.
And we do have a two-part question when it comes to what happened with LV. We know that the reason that LV couldn’t kill Harry was because Lily died for him. (The exchange was accepted.) What we don’t know is why he lost all his powers. Certainly his body was taken from him, and the fragment of the soul he had must have been lost when the AK rebounded on him. Is that enough to take away power? It shouldn’t have been. If Horcruxes are all they are cracked up to be, I would think that they would prevent loss of whatever life one might have, and that should include the body. I mean, after all, if you get AK’ed very often, it seems it would be a lot of work to go get a body again, messy potions, bone of the father etc…it would get old. What LV wants isn’t money in the bank for an emergency; he wants a bulletproof vest. So I think that Horcruxes protect the body as well. Certainly, LV did not expect to get ripped from his body when he attempted to kill Harry.
So when he killed Lily he was acting in accord with what Death had accepted. Soul for a soul. But by trying to kill Harry, he goes against Death. And that just doesn’t work. Death did rebound on him and his Horcruxes, while not useless, didn’t do what he expected them to do. Why would that be?
I think the yew is more appropriately linked with Death, but not necessarily evil.
QUOTE(clunycat Posted Jul 17 2006 @ 09:13 PM )
I think the yew is more appropriately linked with Death, but not necessarily evil.
You are correct in thinking this. I have not found one sorce that states that Yew is evil. I think why we are quick to assume this is, because of what the yew and LV do have in common:
QUOTE
while yew, which can achieve astonishing longevity (there are British yew trees over two thousand years old), can symbolise both death and resurrection; the sap is also poisonous.
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extra..._view.cfm?id=18And it contrast to Harry's Holly wand and what the Holly wood stands for.
QUOTE
I gave Harry a wand made of holly wood back in 1990, when I first drafted chapter six of ‘Philosopher’s Stone’. It was not an arbitrary decision: holly has certain connotations that were perfect for Harry, particularly when contrasted with the traditional associations of yew, from which Voldemort’s wand is made. European tradition has it that the holly tree (the name comes from ‘holy’) repels evil
(Same source)
We are in away lead to believe that Yew is evil, but JKR never comes out and says that.
Where did you read that Odin was an oth breaker? I have yet to read about that.
Here is another definition that supports the position that yew isn’t necessarily evil:
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before but Bidermann also notes:
QUOTE
yew (Taxus) An evergreen tree that can live for centuries and was thus a classical symbol for immortality. From time immemorial it has been planted in cemeteries, along with other evergreens and long-lived trees and shrubs, presumably to express the hope for life that extends beyond the death of the body. By ancient times it was known that the seeds of the yew are poisonous (they contain an alkaloid that can paralyze the heart), and the feared Celtic warriors dipped the tips of their spears in yew poison. The pulpy exterior of the seed, however, is not poisonous; birds eat yew berries and thereby help to propagate the tree. The wood of the tree is resin-free and utterly impervious; it was thus used for making statues and bows. Even in modern times children in southeastern Europe have been given yew crosses as amulets against evil forces. (Hans Biedermann. Dictionary of Symbolism. Pg. 393)
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before but Bidermann also notes:
QUOTE
The Sigrune, a LIGHTENING-bolt version of the letter S . . . comes from a rune associated with the SUN, fertility, and the warding off of demons (ibid., pg. 291)
Other sources have it as a symbol for victory.
Good going everyone.
Particularly on the Soliwilo Eiwaz thing.
They are both compelling. the Yew rune for all its LV connections, banishment, protection, etc
And the Sowilo, because its harry, Shining light, ruled by the sun- hes a leo, a symbol of the sun within man, strength and will.
Actually the sowilo rune is said to be the origin of the double silver lightning bolt worn by the nazis all those zears ago-not a happy use of it, but then the swastika itself was an inversion of the original, also a symbol for the sun.
ANYWAY i am sure theres no connection to nazis in HP, so now I go on.
I have to say that purely on shape the sowilo looks more likely. if u turn it a bit it looks like a back to front N which is kind of like the scar on his head in the movies.
Particularly on the Soliwilo Eiwaz thing.
They are both compelling. the Yew rune for all its LV connections, banishment, protection, etc
And the Sowilo, because its harry, Shining light, ruled by the sun- hes a leo, a symbol of the sun within man, strength and will.
Actually the sowilo rune is said to be the origin of the double silver lightning bolt worn by the nazis all those zears ago-not a happy use of it, but then the swastika itself was an inversion of the original, also a symbol for the sun.
ANYWAY i am sure theres no connection to nazis in HP, so now I go on.
I have to say that purely on shape the sowilo looks more likely. if u turn it a bit it looks like a back to front N which is kind of like the scar on his head in the movies.
Any new thoughts on Eihwaz and Sowulo? I keep thinking about what DD said.
"Naturally, naturally," murmured Dumbledore apparently to himself, still observing the stream of smoke without the slightest sign of surprise. "But in essence divided?"
Harry could make neither head nor tail of this question. The smoke serpent, however, split itself instantly into two snakes, both coiling and undulating in the dark air. "
The snakes making the signs for.
and
"Naturally, naturally," murmured Dumbledore apparently to himself, still observing the stream of smoke without the slightest sign of surprise. "But in essence divided?"
Harry could make neither head nor tail of this question. The smoke serpent, however, split itself instantly into two snakes, both coiling and undulating in the dark air. "
The snakes making the signs for.
and
I don't know anything about runes whatsoever, BUT...
If anyone is reading the British edition of OotP, we know that there are golden runes in the ceiling of the atrium at the MoM. On the back cover of the British edition, you can actually see the runes.
Does anyone think that the illustrator would have researched some runes? Could anyone possibly translate what is on the cover?
If anyone is reading the British edition of OotP, we know that there are golden runes in the ceiling of the atrium at the MoM. On the back cover of the British edition, you can actually see the runes.
Does anyone think that the illustrator would have researched some runes? Could anyone possibly translate what is on the cover?
Has anyone mentioned that one reason the Yew is common to older graveyards is because it was a deterrent to the animals that might otherwise frequent the area? If the yew was both attractive and poisonous, it could have served both purposes -- beautifying the graves and keeping out pesky animals.
If so, the interpretation of Eihwaz meaning defense and being associated with the yew makes sense. The yew would literally have been defending the graveyard from unwanted intruders.
One site I ran across associates Scorpio with Eihwaz. Molly Weasley's a Scorpio -- can't think of any others offhand but Halloween also falls under Scorpio's time of the year. What do you make of that? Perhaps Molly can be associated with this defensive rune in the same way that Lily could be -- Molly, I believe, would sacrifice anything to ensure the protection of her brood, just as Lily did sacrifice her life for Harry's.
I keep going back to what Hermione says after the OWLs in OotP. She's worried about her ancient runes exam, and believes she's confused Ehwaz with Eihwaz. I think both runes are important to Harry. Eihwaz because of his mother's sacrifice -- he's been marked with the gift of defense. But Ehwaz (partnership) because he's been marked by LV as his equal. Ehwaz looks a bit like the capital letter M -- it's supposed to represent two horses standing head to head. In essence divided, anyone? And as it also facilitates "soul" travel -- well, I just find that interesting in light of what happens in OotP when Harry "travels" without leaving his bed to see through Nagini's eyes. And that idea of partnership, two halves of the same whole, might also apply to the trio -- they really complement each other.
ETA: Oh my goodness! I found another site that links sowilo (the sun rune) to the Juniper tree. And I had just found out the other day that Ginevra is derived from Guinevere, and that Guinevere is related to the French word for Juniper. Holy cow!
If so, the interpretation of Eihwaz meaning defense and being associated with the yew makes sense. The yew would literally have been defending the graveyard from unwanted intruders.
One site I ran across associates Scorpio with Eihwaz. Molly Weasley's a Scorpio -- can't think of any others offhand but Halloween also falls under Scorpio's time of the year. What do you make of that? Perhaps Molly can be associated with this defensive rune in the same way that Lily could be -- Molly, I believe, would sacrifice anything to ensure the protection of her brood, just as Lily did sacrifice her life for Harry's.
I keep going back to what Hermione says after the OWLs in OotP. She's worried about her ancient runes exam, and believes she's confused Ehwaz with Eihwaz. I think both runes are important to Harry. Eihwaz because of his mother's sacrifice -- he's been marked with the gift of defense. But Ehwaz (partnership) because he's been marked by LV as his equal. Ehwaz looks a bit like the capital letter M -- it's supposed to represent two horses standing head to head. In essence divided, anyone? And as it also facilitates "soul" travel -- well, I just find that interesting in light of what happens in OotP when Harry "travels" without leaving his bed to see through Nagini's eyes. And that idea of partnership, two halves of the same whole, might also apply to the trio -- they really complement each other.
ETA: Oh my goodness! I found another site that links sowilo (the sun rune) to the Juniper tree. And I had just found out the other day that Ginevra is derived from Guinevere, and that Guinevere is related to the French word for Juniper. Holy cow!
QUOTE(HP Theoretician @ Feb 9 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]1094613[/snapback]
I don't know anything about runes whatsoever, BUT...
If anyone is reading the British edition of OotP, we know that there are golden runes in the ceiling of the atrium at the MoM. On the back cover of the British edition, you can actually see the runes.
Does anyone think that the illustrator would have researched some runes? Could anyone possibly translate what is on the cover?
Also in the British edition of HBP the ring on the spine of the book looks like it could be either rune.
I am a runemistress of many years.
In first picture, I can make out perthro (sort of) and kenaz. It looks like sowilo is hiding under the white part. All the others are non-runic gibberish. They may be symbols from another alphabet, or in this case futhark.
The only symbol that I can make out in the second set is Fehu, but it may not be, because the points are pointing neither up nor down. The others, again are non-runic gobbledegook. It is not Ansuz, as the points aren’t joined at the top.
In all cases, these symbols are merkstave (upside down), with the exception of the little hidden sowilo, it is right side up or true (don't know what the Norse word for true is).
Perthro – merkstave – loneliness, feeling lost and isolated
Kenaz – merkstave – instability, loss of understanding, disease
Fehu – merkstave - loss of family wealth, loss of inheritance or disconnection from something related to heritage
Sowilo - victory, the sun
I really think that whoever designed that probably wasn’t really into runes, certainly isn’t a runemistress or runemaster. If they intentionally included those runes, then it does make sense.
If you want to learn more about runes, go get a set or make a set, and the best website for translating is sunnyway! Check it out. I am not affiliated with sunnyway, but it’s my preferred rune reference on the net.
BB,
maplewitch
In first picture, I can make out perthro (sort of) and kenaz. It looks like sowilo is hiding under the white part. All the others are non-runic gibberish. They may be symbols from another alphabet, or in this case futhark.
The only symbol that I can make out in the second set is Fehu, but it may not be, because the points are pointing neither up nor down. The others, again are non-runic gobbledegook. It is not Ansuz, as the points aren’t joined at the top.
In all cases, these symbols are merkstave (upside down), with the exception of the little hidden sowilo, it is right side up or true (don't know what the Norse word for true is).
Perthro – merkstave – loneliness, feeling lost and isolated
Kenaz – merkstave – instability, loss of understanding, disease
Fehu – merkstave - loss of family wealth, loss of inheritance or disconnection from something related to heritage
Sowilo - victory, the sun
I really think that whoever designed that probably wasn’t really into runes, certainly isn’t a runemistress or runemaster. If they intentionally included those runes, then it does make sense.
If you want to learn more about runes, go get a set or make a set, and the best website for translating is sunnyway! Check it out. I am not affiliated with sunnyway, but it’s my preferred rune reference on the net.
BB,
maplewitch
Hey, everyone. I'm sure I'm not the first one to pick up on this, but there's a rune like symbol on the HP page on bloomsbury. It's a triangle with circle inside, which is spit by a vertical line splitting the circle to the top of the triangle. I have looked and can not find a coresponding rune. I wonder though, what it could mean.
QUOTE(alliesempai @ May 1 2007, 04:22 PM) [snapback]1201667[/snapback]
Hey, everyone. I'm sure I'm not the first one to pick up on this, but there's a rune like symbol on the HP page on bloomsbury. It's a triangle with circle inside, which is spit by a vertical line splitting the circle to the top of the triangle. I have looked and can not find a coresponding rune. I wonder though, what it could mean.
It is similar to the Rosicrucian symbol called 'secret fire' which has to do with the final stages of the Philosopher's Stone. But the line up the middle changes it in some way. I have been looking forever and I have not yet found a symbol exactly like that. I thought the line up the middle was a wand but, after checking out the Bloomsbury site, it is clearly not. But it looks like it is carved into stone. Maybe a secret sign over an entrance to somewhere.
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