Toujours Pur
Mar 31 2005, 11:29 PM
Okay I’ve been looking around again, and here is what I found out about two runes in particular. Eihwaz and Sowulo, they look like mirror images of each other.
The yew tree is an ancient wisdom keeper and the gateway to the otherworld. Because of this it is known as the shaman rune (representing the ability of the shaman to control/mould the unshaped energy of the otherworld) standing for motivation and transformation.
~~~~~~~~~~~
One of the most powerful runes
Represents the Yew tree, which is known for its longevity
Negative aspects: It has been known as the death rune because the yew tree is poisonous.
Positive aspects: The rune is known for its magickal protection.
Rune: Continuity of life
~~~~~~~~~~~
Enlightenment, endurance, initiation, protection, life/death
Lore:
This is the principle of the vertical axis that penetrates into the world above and the world below and connects the human realm to heavenly regions. It is the synthesis of above and below, light and dark, life and death. The yew is a flexible force but also hard; it endures beyond all other things. The yew is evergreen in the winter (life in the midst of death), and it is useful to build fires, becoming the "sun within".
Positive Meaning:
The "yew" promotes spiritual enlightenment. Mental toughness and flexibility are needed. The inner flame must be ignited through discipline. Realization of inner strength will protect you from outside dangers.
Negative Meaning:
Eihwas coming too early into the life of a person can cause deep confusion. The hot fires unconsciously ignited may "burn-out".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The yew tree is an ancient wisdom keeper and the gateway to the otherworld. Because of this it is known as the shaman rune (representing the ability of the shaman to control/mould the unshaped energy of the otherworld) standing for motivation and transformation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yew Tree
The Yew, is a tree that grows to great heights, is nearly indestructible, and has deep meaning for the peoples of Northern Europe. Beyond this however, the yew had deeper meanings, for many believe that the World Tree of ancient belief was a yew . This would explain the use of yew trees in ancient European cemeteries and its connection in folklore to death. In order to reach the gods' realms, the worthy dead would have to journey up the World Tree from our plane here on Earth. Yew therefore can represent death, or the spiritual death and rebirth of the shaman who makes a similar journey while alive
The sun with its life-giving light and warmth can be seen as the life force. Its meaning is good fortune, health and happiness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sowulo
Pronunciation: (soe-wee-low) Variations: Sigel Letter: S Meaning: Sun, Victory
Runic spell - Victory, success, used for healing, strength and self confidence.
Divination - This rune represents the Sun which is the opposite of Isa. It predicts challenging periods of spiritual growth and promises a path leading toward the objective. It foretells extremely intense transformation.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Represents the power that is contracted from the sun
Shaped like a flash of lightning
It has many meanings
The essential quality needed for daylight
Abilities needed to overcome obstacles
Straightforwardness
Positive aspects: It resists the force of death; its virtues lie in its victory of holding light over darkness.
Rune: Clearing the path to grasp our goals
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sigel is the rune of the sun, and therefore is linked to all of the sun's imagery. Northern Europeans saw the sun as a goddess due to the warmth she gave in the often cold north. This warmth was seen as the warmth a mother or wife gives their children or husband. It is a feeling of love and safety. It was the sun's rays that allowed the crops to grow, the same crops that would be stored for the onslaught on winter.
elly
Apr 1 2005, 02:52 AM
Hi Toujours Pur!
Is that the rune Hermione got wrong in her exam? I thought it might be significant (or at least have a backstory)...but you have sure got your research down!
Toujours Pur
Apr 1 2005, 03:34 AM
Here is the symbol for eihwaz.
Its just something I found when I was looking to see why Hermione preferred runes over divination. When I saw the lighting bolt rune it all seemed to click.
Yes it is, Hermione confused Eihwaz and Ehwaz.
QUOTE
"I mistranslated 'ehwaz,'" said Hermione furiously. "It means 'partnership,' not 'defense,' I mixed it up with 'eihwaz.”
Her Definitions were.
Ehwaz - Partnership
Eihwaz - Defense
Ehwaz corresponds to English E and means Horse, Friendship. Element: Earth
Ehwaz
The Nineteenth Rune
My loyal partner
carry me through battle
to victory
through death
to the land beyond
Names - EHWAZ - horse stallion, EH - war horse, IOR - horse
Ehwaz is associated with "twin" gods or heroes, the divine twins, or two horses and is symbolized as two horses standing head to head facing one another.
The Saxon conquerors of Britain were Hengist and Horsa (stallion and horse) and this rune speaks to the harmonious relationship between two forces in the same way that successful horsemanship requires a harmonious relationship with his mount. Again, one could infer a reference to teamwork if that was helpful.
The Ehwaz was connected closely to the concept of a man's fetch, the "horse" that carries one on the journey between worlds. It is the rune of Sleipnir, the magical eight-legged horse of the gods. With its close connection to the horse it is also a symbol of partnerships.
Ehwaz facilitates "soul travel" or the shaman's journey. As such it can be used to obtained hidden knowledge or knowledge from a distance.
It can represent a journey in consciousness, a swifter flight then that of Raidho, (another rune that makes reference to the eight-legged magical horse Sleipnir), and one that is protected or guided.
Magically Ehwaz can be useful in summoning methods for aiding advancement and progress. This advancement may be through opportunities to make useful connections with others, or to "connect" to useful knowledge or equipment that will speed your progress.
This rune may also be worked to bring or summon forth a partnership where one is needed, perhaps in business, commerce, or battle. This work may include the formation of alliances.
EHWAZ UPRIGHT:Horse, transportation, vehicle, advancement, movement, harmony, teamwork, trust, loyalty, an ideal marriage or partnership, confirmation beyond any doubt conveyed in the meanings of the runes around it.
EHWAZ MERKSTAVE:Slow or stalled progress, restlessness, needing assistance, unachievable ideals or goals, reckless haste, disharmony, mistrust, betrayal, misalliances.
from the book Northern Mysteries & Magick
by Freya Aswynn
The most obvious meaning of Ehwaz implies vehicles and control of vehicles. In the olden days a horse and chariot were common vehicles. In modern days this rune could refer to a car or, more probably, a motorbike. Ehwaz also represents the physical vehicle and may be incorporated in a healing working. On a deeper level, the Ehwaz rune represents the vehicle, or in psychological terms the persona, which is used to relate the external world to one's own emotional attitudes. In other words, it stands for one's ability to adjust to various situations.
elly
Apr 1 2005, 04:10 AM
Wow, these books just keep getting better and better the more I learn! Thanks, Toujours Pur!
Asphodel Wormwood
Apr 1 2005, 04:13 AM
That's great Toujours Pur (as always)!
Which do you think has greater correlation to Harry's scar? I was leaning towards Sowulo, but why would she refer to eihwaz in the books...?
elly
Apr 1 2005, 04:22 AM
Oh! I just thought she was referring to general themes with the runes--didn't think about the scar. But didn't she say that it's not the shape that's most important? Don't recall...placement, then? (As in, why on his head and not his heart or instep...)
The Curious Mr Quint
Apr 1 2005, 07:20 AM
Some fine research there Toujours Pur.
If we take the mention of Eihwaz as significant and relate it to Harry's scar, then 'defence' seems a fine definition for the lightining bolt on his head. It epitomizes alot of themes within the series.
Asphodel Wormwood
Apr 1 2005, 07:26 AM
Especially as he gained it through the defence (sacrifice) of his mother. As TP has shown, there are several possible meanings for each rune - but JKR chose only one particular for each.
Arianhrod
Apr 1 2005, 08:57 AM
Once again, Toujours Por, you're on it.
QUOTE
The yew tree is an ancient wisdom keeper and the gateway to the otherworld. Because of this it is known as the shaman rune (representing the ability of the shaman to control/mould the unshaped energy of the otherworld) standing for motivation and transformation.
~~~~~~~~~~~
One of the most powerful runes
Represents the Yew tree, which is known for its longevity
Negative aspects: It has been known as the death rune because the yew tree is poisonous.
Positive aspects: The rune is known for its magickal protection.
Rune: Continuity of life
~~~~~~~~~~~
Enlightenment, endurance, initiation, protection, life/death
This is quite interesting. Voldemort's wand is yew, and we all know that he'd go to any lengths to conquer death.
QUOTE
This is the principle of the vertical axis that penetrates into the world above and the world below and connects the human realm to heavenly regions. It is the synthesis of above and below, light and dark, life and death. The yew is a flexible force but also hard; it endures beyond all other things. The yew is evergreen in the winter (life in the midst of death), and it is useful to build fires, becoming the "sun within".
Positive Meaning:
The "yew" promotes spiritual enlightenment. Mental toughness and flexibility are needed. The inner flame must be ignited through discipline. Realization of inner strength will protect you from outside dangers.
Negative Meaning:
Eihwas coming too early into the life of a person can cause deep confusion. The hot fires unconsciously ignited may "burn-out".
Yew is also associated with the midwinter solstice, the day of the year when the hours of darkness exceed the hours of light.
QUOTE
Ehwaz is associated with "twin" gods or heroes, the divine twins, or two horses and is symbolized as two horses standing head to head facing one another.
Could this be Fred and George? (HAPPY BIRTHDAY! ) :birthday:
QUOTE
Oh! I just thought she was referring to general themes with the runes--didn't think about the scar. But didn't she say that it's not the shape that's most important? Don't recall...placement, then? (As in, why on his head and not his heart or instep...)
The temporal lobe (forehead) is often associated with the Third Eye, which is possibly why Harry can connect with Voldemort. The Third Eye, in mythology and paranormal studies, is very important in astral projection (out-of-body experiences), where a person can physically stay in one place, but their spirit/soul/consciousness can travel great distances. The spirit and the physical body are connected by a string, and if the string is broken during one of these projections, the soul can never reenter the body. The person would still be alive, but soul-less.
Asphodel Wormwood
Apr 1 2005, 09:02 AM
Yes - the Anja chakra, which is the sixth of seven. Maybe it will be really important in HBP...?
Arianhrod
Apr 1 2005, 10:39 AM
In a way, haven't we seen it already? When Harry sees Arthur being attacked. Harry thought he actually went all the way to the DoM, but Ron reminded him that he never left his bed.
Asphodel Wormwood
Apr 1 2005, 01:30 PM
Yes! IMO, LV was projecting thoughts to Harry. This is neither Legilimency nor Occlumency; it was also to do with the scar connection. It enabled Harry to see as LV saw.
Toujours Pur
Apr 1 2005, 10:06 PM
Elly when you mentioned it was the location and not the shape of the scar, and Diamond brought out the “Third Eye” then AP wrapped it all up with a bow. All that was left for me, was too look around. I think you all have solved the mystery of....
QUOTE
Cathedral: Don't want to rune the ending, but will we be finding out more about the significance of the shape of Harry's scar in future books?
JKR: The shape is not the most significant aspect of that scar, and that's all I'm going to say!
Please take note, that through a typo or whatever that ruin is spelt rune.
http://www.wizardnews.com/story.20040304.html
I am now convinced that the lessons in Occlumency was to strengthen the inner eye.
Occlumency
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Occlumency is, a branch of magic involving the practice of closing one's mind against outside penetration, thereby preventing others from reading one's thoughts. One who is practiced in occlumency is known as an Occlumens. This nonexistent word was created by joining the word "occlude" (which means to close or block off) with the suffix "-mens" (which means mind).
What is the third eye?
The mystic traditions of many cultures refer to a location eithernear the crown of the head, just above the meeting point of the eyes or at the anterior fontanelle as the seat of spiritual/psychic potential.
~~~~~~~~
The Third Eye Chakra or Sixth Chakra
This chakra is the seat of inner wisdom. Located above the physical eyes between the eyebrows at the midforehead within an inch above the bridge of the nose, it governs the areas of psychic powers, self mastery, telepathy, non attachment, knowledge, psychic center, sixth sense, perceptual intuition, truths, intellect, spiritual enlightenment, thought, spiritual love and connectivity, self-evaluation, channeling, attuning to your Higher Self, open mindedness, intelligence, intuition.
The true function of this mysterious gland ( pineal gland) has long been contemplated by philosophers and Spiritual Adepts. Ancient Greeks believed the pineal gland to be our connection to the Realms of Thought. Descartes called it the Seat of the Soul. This gland is activated by Light, and it controls the various biorhythms of the body. Astral travel, and other occult abilities, are closely associated with the development of the 'light in the head'.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The pineal gland produces the chemicals that cause dreams and that produce normal hallucinations.
~~~~~~~~~
We know that the pineal gland is most active at night or during sleep. When the body is resting and our other senses are "turned off" we may be able to then "work out" what is going on around us in the world of the earthly spirits.
My biggest fear after looking all this up is that JKR does not end the book with Harry waking up from a coma. A coma in which this gland was stimulated and the world that we have been living in never existed.
elly
Apr 1 2005, 10:49 PM
Good Lord, Toujours Pur, if I thought your research was thorough before...!
Third eye, huh?
Hmmm... :ponder:
Toujours Pur
Apr 3 2005, 06:26 PM
QUOTE(Asphodel Wormwood @ April 01 2005,3:13 am)
That's great Toujours Pur (as always)!
Which do you think has greater correlation to Harry's scar? I was leaning towards Sowulo, but why would she refer to eihwaz in the books...?
I just watched PoA again and the scar on Harry’s head looks just like the rune for Sowulo.
mtwelovett
Apr 3 2005, 10:56 PM
Was Lily good at Ancient Runes? Did she use one of these to essentially protect Harry with as a Talisman from her wand that was strengthened by her death? Eihwaz has been mentioned twice in the series if I'm remembering correctly. I think it could be significant, especially with the connection with Voldermort's wand... is that part of why his spell backfired? While Sowulo looks more like a lightning bolt Eihwaz could be discribed similarly if you were just looking for words to describe something out of context if it wasn't shaped quite as precisely as it is on the rune. (she was in a hurry since Voldermort was around...or did Lily confuse shapes in the rush, like Hermione confused names?)
Toujours Pur
Apr 3 2005, 11:43 PM
I looked around and found what kind of wand Lily used.
Voldemort: Yew, 13 1/2", phoenix tail feather ( from Fawkes)
Lily: willow, 10 1/4", swishy
I found it interesting that Hermione and Krum’s wand share the same core of dragon heartstring.
Hermione: vine wood, dragon heartstring
Krum: hornbeam, 10 1/4", rigid, dragon's heartstring
And Ron and Lily share the same wood also Ron and Cedric share the same core, unicorn hair.
Ron: willow, 14", unicorn tail hair
Cedric: pleasantly springy, 12 1/4",unicorn hair
Toujours Pur
Apr 9 2005, 10:19 PM
It would appear from this passage that Harry is having an out of body experience. Before I read this I had thought that Harry might be seeing things from Nagini eyes. But this makes it clear that he is there in spirit and seeing things from his on perspective.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What is an out of the body experience?
Out of body experiences are those curious, and usually brief experiences in which a person's consciousness seems to depart from his or her body, enabling observation of the world from a point of view other than that of the physical body and by means other than those of the physical senses. Thus, an out-of-the-body experience can initially be defined as 'an experience in which a person seems to perceive the world from a location outside his physical body'.
~~~~~~~~~
GoF
His eyelids began to droop. He was riding on the back of an eagle owl, soaring through the clear blue sky toward an old, ivy-covered house set high on a hillside. Lower and lower they flew, the wind blowing pleasantly in Harry's face, until they reached a dark and broken window in the upper story of the house and entered. Now they were flying along a gloomy passageway, to a room at the very end through the door they went, into a dark room whose windows were boarded up Harry had left the owl's back he was watching, now, as it fluttered across the room, into a chair with its back to him. There were two dark shapes on the floor beside the chair both of them were stirring One was a huge snake the other was a man a short, balding man, a man with watery eyes and a pointed nose he was wheezing and sobbing on the hearth rug "You are in luck, Wormtail," said a cold, high-pitched voice from the depths of the chair in which the owl had landed. "You are very fortunate indeed. Your blunder has not ruined everything. He is dead." "My Lord!" gasped the man on the floor. "My Lord, I am I am so pleased and so sorry" "Nagini," said the cold voice, "you are out of luck. tolerate another blunder from you."
Asphodel Wormwood
Apr 10 2005, 06:04 AM
By 'muggle' definition, I think that it would be deemed that - but this is the magical realm, where I don't think it would be seen like that - I think that it would be seen as a mental, or telepathic connection (another muggle term).
Back to whether Harry's scar is Sowilo or Eihwaz, I'm leaning more to the latter. From what we know, the scar is a connection between Harry and LV, it was also made by LV on Harry, and for this reason I think that it relates to both of them. Runes have negative and positive properties. If Harry has the positive and LV the negative, I think that it would fit. Also, the whole YEW thing - LV's wand, which JKR aptly chose as his wand-wood. I also think that the murky meanings for Eihwaz are closer to LV than those for Sowilo.
Arianhrod
May 31 2005, 09:07 AM
Okay, I'm going to try to resurrect this thread based on some reading I was doing yesterday. While thinking about Felix Felis, I came across the following rune:
The rune Feyu (pronounced Fay-oo) provides success, advancement in career, a turnabout in luck for those in difficulty. The good luck it provides is not permanent, but a single event or a short period of good fortune. After that the charm must be renewed, not only magically but through an act of binding or connection in the social sense. This act can be a gift to charity, help to another, or some other action to like oneself to a social order.
Now, call me crazy, but this sounds to me like the charm DD put on Harry after James and Lily were killed. He has to return to the Dursleys once a year, because the charm isn't permanent and has to be renewed. Also, the "social order" is his family, and he has to bind or connect with them in order for the charm to remain in effect.
Also, it is a good luck charm, a "bringer of good fortune", which is loosely how Felix Felicis can be translated. That might be reaching a little, but we never found out exactly which charm DD cast, only its properties.
It's just odd that all of a sudden Ancient Runes plays a role in a conversation among the trio, and JKR goes out of her way to give us the meanings of those two runes. Then, DD finally gives the reason why Harry has to go back to the Dursleys. I'm just wondering if it is a coincidence.
Eihwaz symbolizes the yew tree and is a very powerful rune of banishing and protection. Protection. Increase in power. Removal of obstacles. (Yew=Voldemort, which was mentioned earlier)
Initiation into the wisdom of the World-Tree (the axis of the multiverse). Realization of the death/life mystery and liberation from the fear of death. Development of spiritual endurance and hard will. Spiritual creativity and vision. Protection from detrimental forces. General increase in personal power. Communication between levels of reality. Memories of former existences in the the ancestral stream.
And here's one that might help Harry:
Thorn (Thurisaz) is useful for attack and sometimes for tests. It makes poeple careless at the wrong moment; it makes people sicken; it drives people insane. It is particularly suitable for increasing the fear of poeple already afraid. Of Odin's list of eighteen runes, the sixth turns an enemy's spells against them.
Arianhrod
May 31 2005, 10:17 AM
The source I have says only that it can be used in liberation from the fear of death, which IMO is something LV desperately needs. It also represents memories of former existences (TR becoming LV?).
Interestingly enough, and I wish the gif would copy, is that the shape looks like a backwards lightning bolt. I will try some more to see if I can get it to paste without having to copy the HTML.
Narya
May 31 2005, 10:07 AM
Diamond, I was really curious about the runes as well although my research is not as thorough as yours; 
I found another meaning for "eihwaz" - admittedly a more modern derivation - and this might make it unsuitable for Ancient Runes; it means "death". I was thinking of this not only in terms of LV and the deaths that we've seen already, but maybe presaging deaths to come ... any thoughts?
paperflowergirl
Aug 3 2005, 04:29 AM
At the request of firephoenix, I have dug this thread out of the backlogs of Great Wizarding Events, and moved it into Obscurus. This is a more appropriate place for these kinds of discussions, and will allow you to mention HBP, as Obscurus is a spoiler forum, whereas GWE is not.
Happy Posting!
"Locomotor Thread!" :wizard:
Toujours Pur
Aug 3 2005, 10:29 AM
I have a broken link on Eihwaz, so here it is again. This is LV rune.
Arianhrod
Aug 3 2005, 12:29 PM
Toujours Pur, is that Voldemort's rune? Is that what you mean by LV?
Toujours Pur
Aug 3 2005, 01:35 PM
Yes the two runes are mirror images of each other.
Arianhrod
Aug 3 2005, 01:47 PM
Hmm. Interesting. It looks like a backwards lightning bolt to me, a mirror image of the one Harry has on his forehead. Does anyone have a picture of Harry's scar?
firephoenix
Aug 3 2005, 11:08 PM
Is it possible that Harry isn't represented by a tile? The Eihwaz tile says it can not be reversed and I remember reading something about the effects of rune tile as charms and as tattooes. And there is a warning not to reproduce certian ones and not to reproduce them incorrectly. I'll see if I can't find it.
Toujours Pur
Aug 3 2005, 11:22 PM
This is from my UK cover of the HBP.
firephoenix
Aug 4 2005, 09:37 AM
This is what I was refering to in my last post:QUOTE
Be extremely careful about permanent tattoos. Runes are very powerful and can be dangerous. The only rune charm I would trust for a permanent tattoo would be the Aegishjalmur, the bindrune for protection and irresistibility in combat or the Vegvisir, a runic compass. See the Runic Tattoo page on this website for more about tattoos.
T. Pur- That is how Harry scar appears in most drawn pictures of him. His scar is over the third eye and the mirror image of LV's tile. Or is it in reverse?
I agree that the Solwiol tile fits Harry. But I'm just wondering if JKR might of took her own path at one point and that's why Harry's scar looks like LV's tile (flipped) and not the Sowiol tile. :conf:
Arianhrod
Aug 4 2005, 10:10 AM
QUOTE
I agree that the Solwiol tile fits Harry. But I'm just wondering if JKR might of took her own path at one point and that's why Harry's scar looks like LV's tile (flipped) and not the Sowiol tile.
I think it may be another doppelganger thing. Harry and LV have a lot of similarities for all that they are opposites. I wonder if that could be a reason for that.
This is what my source says about Solwiol:
Transcendent power, salvation, knowledge, strength in times of trouble. Also useful for matters of success and divination. Will counter all dark forces. The sun is a symbol of personal, trascendent salvation. (Cooper, Esoteric Rune Magic.)
Sigel is the rune of the will. It is that spiritual energy which guidws all true seekers. A rune of success. Victory, success. Used for healing. Used when strength and self-confidence are needed. (Peschel, A Practical Guide to the Runes.)
Strengthening of the psychic centers. Increase in spiritual will. Guidance through the pathways, "enlightenment". Victory and success through individual will. (Thorsson, Fuhark.)
To increase good health, vitality and sexual powers. (Howard, Understanding Runes.)
Looking at the rune and comparing it to the picture of Harry, they look the same...
Now I remember about LV's rune. Eihwahz symbolizes the yew tree. I don't know, though...it doesn't really look like a mirror image at all. What do you guys think?
firephoenix
Aug 4 2005, 10:44 AM
EIHWAZ - EI: Yew Tree
Stability, doing the right things, patience, perseverance, endurance. Decided what is the right way to get the things accomplished in your life. Cannot be reversed.
It didn't bring the picture with it.
It's HERE I'm just not sure on this one. I wish we could find a drawing that JKR did herself.
Arianhrod
Aug 4 2005, 10:54 AM
That's the one my source says, too.
Here's what mine says:
Protection of oneself and one's rights. When things are out of kilter this rune can help this rune can help set them back in line. However, if it is the runecaster who is out of whack, things suffer for it. This rune can thus be used in conjunction with other runes to keep the magic of the whole within reasonable bounds. It forms a kind of feedback mechanism within talismans and rune magic.
Eihwaz symbolizes the yew tree and is a very powerful rune of banishing and protection. Protection. Increase in power. Removal of obstacles. (Peschel, A Practical Guide to the Runes.)
Initiation into the wisdom of the World-Tree (the axis of the multiverse). Realization of the death/life mystery and liberation from the fear of death. Development of spiritual endurance and hard will. Spiritual creativity and vision. Protection from detrimental forces. General increase in personal power. Communication between levels of reality. Memories of former existences in the the ancestral stream. (Thorsson, Futhark.)
To end situations and solve problems. (Howard, Understanding Runes.)
I like that link you sent. It looks better than the one I have, especially with the history of runes. Off to read for awhile!
firephoenix
Aug 4 2005, 11:19 AM
I am really trying not to be a pain. I am just as cursious as Ollivander... QUOTE
1. Basically, you'll need a 1" diameter fruit tree branch. Apple works well, yew and pine, too, and I've seen nice cedar, redwood and olive wood sets. It does have to be a fruit-bearing tree according to my reading and personal gnosis on the issue and harvested just before the tree comes into fruit (at the blossom stage) - you need that fruit-bearing power in the runes to lend to the overall power of the runic symbols. I have been taught by the Gods I work with that to have a "dead" branch (harvested fallen, non-fruit bearing or having already fruited) makes 'dead' runes. Others may have different feelings about this.
[Sunny's comments: Most trees are "fruit-bearing", save some species in which the male and female are separate. In that case, use wood from the female tree. If you are a city-dweller, use a purchased hardwood dowel or precut wooden buttons from a woodworking shop. Thin
er...
This is the LINK I use.
LV's wand is Yew, but Harry's is Holly (a fruit bearing tree) Harry's wand is then the reverse of LV"s wand. In fact every thing about LV and Harry is the reverse of each other except for their roots. So is it possible that Harry some how became the reverse of LV's tile?
Diamond - The research I have done too, points at the fact that Harry is the Solwiol tile, but I still think that Harry's scar look more like LV's in reverse then the Solwiol tile.
Arianhrod
Aug 4 2005, 11:51 AM
Wow, that's interesting. Sowilo's tarot card is the sun, planet is also the sun (fire sign, which Harry is), color is white/silver (patronus?), tree is juniper and herb is mistletoe. Eihwaz' tarot card is the Hanged Man, sign is Scorpio, tree is yew and--GET THIS!--herb is mandrake.
QUOTE
So is it possible that Harry some how became the reverse of LV's tile?
I'd say that's very possible. One other thing, too--and this corresponds to astrology more to runes, but it kinda fits in here. In astrology, some people go through the Wheel of Time backwards, which means that instead of their soul rising up toward enlightenment, they start out enlightened and go the other way. Mirror image again.
memyslfnI
Aug 4 2005, 11:54 AM
Firephoenix, I love the link you provided for the runes alphabet!!!!
I started reading them for the first time today.
I love this letter (symbol, I shoud say)
QUOTE
PERTHRO - P: Initiation, Things Unexplained, Something Hidden
A hieratic or mystery rune pointing to that which is beyond our frail manipulative powers.
Perth is associated with the Phoenix, the mystical bird which consumes itself in the fire then rises from its own ashes. Its ways are secret and hidden. Powerful forces of change are at work here. Yet what is achieved is not easily or readily shared. After all becoming whole - the means of it - is a profound secret.
On the side of the Earthly or mundane, there may well be surprises, gains or rewards that you did not anticipate.
On the side of human nature this Rune is symbolized by the flight of the eagle. Soaring flight, free from entanglement, lifting yourself above the endless ebb and flow of ordinary life to acquire broader vision - all this is indicated here.
Perth stands for the heart of Initiation - Nothing external matters here, except as it shows you in its inner reflection. This Rune is concerned with the deepest stratum of our being, the bedrock on which our destiny is founded.
For some Perth means experiencing some form of death - or transition. It is a letting go of everything, no exceptions, no exclusions. Nothing less than renewal of the Spirit is at stake.
Hidden information and truths, mysteries, esoteric, that which is unknown on a conscious level, it could come into the light and you would understand the 'higher meaning' of things.
Reversed: Events stalled, you need to clear out something - unpleasant surprise - the old way has to come to an end, do not focus on outcomes, nor bind yourself with memories of past achievements or you will orb yourself of the true present. When your inner being is shifting and reforming, on a deep level, patience, constancy, and perseverance are called for.
Do no repeat the old - let it go!
The initiation - the veils of the illusion are being lifted - let the old ways go!
Stay centered, see the humor and keep your faith firm.
This is where Harry needs to go, he has the tools as DD says but he needs
Could this have been DD's tile?
Bear with me this is the fist time I have looked at Runes, and like alchemy, I have to start from the beginning to catch up!!!
Arianhrod
Aug 4 2005, 11:59 AM
I am really liking this subject more and more! It ties in to a lot of the other threads, too, like alchemy and tarot and astrology...we're getting a well-rounded education here, aren't we?
QUOTE
Perth is associated with the Phoenix, the mystical bird which consumes itself in the fire then rises from its own ashes. Its ways are secret and hidden. Powerful forces of change are at work here. Yet what is achieved is not easily or readily shared. After all becoming whole - the means of it - is a profound secret.
That's almost an alchemical statement. The alchemists spent years trying to uncover the secret of enlightenment, and they said that when it comes it's a flash of intuition, and they couldn't believe how simple it was.
QUOTE
On the side of human nature this Rune is symbolized by the flight of the eagle. Soaring flight, free from entanglement, lifting yourself above the endless ebb and flow of ordinary life to acquire broader vision - all this is indicated here.
I think Harry already did this, didn't he? In OOTP, he flew on the back of an eagle owl during one of his nighttime visits to LV's house.
QUOTE
For some Perth means experiencing some form of death - or transition. It is a letting go of everything, no exceptions, no exclusions. Nothing less than renewal of the Spirit is at stake.
I think this is what will happen in the end. Even if his death isn't literal but symbolic (I'm really hoping, anyway).
Toujours Pur
Aug 4 2005, 12:25 PM
We know Jo likes mirror images as in Mirror of Erised.
The inscription around the Mirror of Erised says: "Erised stra ehru oyt ube cafru oyt on wohsi." Backwards it says, "I show not your face but your heart's desire."
jubs48
Aug 4 2005, 12:40 PM
i dont get any of this... you people are thinking way too deep. i disagree with all of this. i think it is all wrong.
Arianhrod
Aug 4 2005, 12:51 PM
That's fine if you think it's all wrong, but one of our rules here at the Leaky is to be nice. Give us reasons WHY you think we're all wrong; don't just say it and not back it up. And again, maybe you're in the wrong place if you don't like to look a little deeper into things. JKR knows exactly what she's doing.
Toujours Pur
Aug 4 2005, 01:11 PM
QUOTE(jubs48 @ Aug. 04 2005,12:40 pm)
i dont get any of this... you people are thinking way too deep. i disagree with all of this. i think it is all wrong.
So why did you read through four pages? Did you read through four pages?
firephoenix
Aug 4 2005, 09:28 PM
Toujours Pur - Please forgive me, it's been a rough couple weeks for me, I should have posted this right off. Diamond sent me to this thread the week HBP came out. I was so impressed with your find that I didn't post at the time, but I did download the Rune thread to study it further. Last week I was doing alittle research on the Rune Stones (not the tiles) and I turned up alot of names and theroies that have been discussed in the past. Also, Hermione mentions Runes again in the HBP. I knew at the time I should have maked the page and for the life of me I can't find it again. This is why I asked Papperflowergirl to move the thread here. (I hope you didn't mind) I can't tell you how happy I was to see that you were the first post after the move. Oh, and your going to find M and Diamond are really good at finding stuff! This should be fun! :dance:
QUOTE
Firephoenix, I love the link you provided for the runes alphabet!!!!
M I just reposted what T. Pur posted at the beginning of this thread.
I mixed up the two tiles we were talking about earlier and now (opps) I think Harry's scar looks like the mirror image of the Solwiol tile.QUOTE
I am really liking this subject more and more! It ties in to a lot of the other threads, too, like alchemy and tarot and astrology...we're getting a well-rounded education here, aren't we?
I know! That's why I wanted it moved here. If you go to the bottem of the web page that I posted as LINK there is a search engine for the website. Be perpared your not going to believe your eyes.QUOTE
Quote
Perth is associated with the Phoenix, the mystical bird which consumes itself in the fire then rises from its own ashes. Its ways are secret and hidden. Powerful forces of change are at work here. Yet what is achieved is not easily or readily shared. After all becoming whole - the means of it - is a profound secret.
That's almost an alchemical statement. The alchemists spent years trying to uncover the secret of enlightenment, and they said that when it comes it's a flash of intuition, and they couldn't believe how simple it was.
IMO, this is also something that can not be taught. It can be explained, but until you reach that curtain point you will never truely understand. This is most likely why so much of the information on these cultures were hidden, buried, and even destroyed.QUOTE
We know Jo likes mirror images as in Mirror of Erised.
The inscription around the Mirror of Erised says: "Erised stra ehru oyt ube cafru oyt on wohsi." Backwards it says, "I show not your face but your heart's desire."
Thanks for posting this, I never caught that before. Both LV's tile and Harry's tile say they can not be reversed, but Harry's scar isn't , it's mirrored. While we are reading about the rune culture we should keep our eyes open for anything that may pertain to this. :note:
Toujours Pur
Aug 4 2005, 10:51 PM
Firephoenix, thanks for the kind words. I am so pleased that there are others who get the gist of what I am saying. My head is all awhirl with the research you all have done . Great work y'all.
And speaking of reversed words. I remember Peter Jackson talking about how isolated some of the locations where Lord of the Rings was filmed. One place was Erehwon (The Edoras location or Rohan) , which is Nowhere spelt backward.
firephoenix
Aug 4 2005, 11:10 PM
[B]The Rune Stones I was talking about earlier, Don't THESE look like the ones in the third movie? I know we're not allowed to canon the movies, but JKR did say there were some clues in it.
I was just researching Stonehinge and Runes to see if there was any connections (couldn't find one) But I did run into three shady websites praying on HP fans. One was real dark and the other to were trying to sell junk.
Toujours Pur
Aug 4 2005, 11:43 PM
LV
Eoh {Eihwaz}
Associations: Apple, Poplar, Yew, Horse
Eoh represents the link between the present, the past, the future and ones ancestors. It is used to remind us of our links to our predecessors, and also invoke the wisdom of the ancients for their guidance.
(As in Salazar Slytherin. )
Harry
Sigel {Sowelu}
Associations: Bay, Juniper, Oak
Sigel, the Sun. This rune destroys darkness, not only banishing shadows, but eradicating them totally. It enables one to see the larger picture and understand the spiritual side of things. It is also a symbol of life, the life that sunlight provides.
Neat link
http://www.rexx.co.uk/herbal/acherbal/htdocs/runes.htm
memyslfnI
Aug 5 2005, 09:32 AM
I cant believe you posted something about the third movie stones Firephoenix! They were time pieces, intracite calenders that tracked not only the cycles of the sun, but the cycles of the moon and the 18.6 year pattern it follows. I was watching the National Geographic Channel last night about stonehenge, who the builders were and what the purpose was, and what interested me the most was a statement by a gentleman named simms who spoke about the transition from hunting to farming for the neolithic people and how hard it was. They were literally ruled by the moon and hunted by night in the light of the full moon. This changed after the ice age and all the large animals became extinct. They lost the thrill of the hunt the comradery etc and had to rely on the backbreaking life of a farmer.
To make a long story short here, was they were not only built to talk about the greatness of the sun but that the moon is just as mysterious and wonderful! The sun, on the shortest day of the year would shine through the cwnter arch way which must have been an awesome and spectacular sight. In contrast the moon, which is just as important, shone through a section ABOVE the sun area. They placed the moon above the sun in importance. It was a nostalgic way for the builders of the monument to exhault the moon and show it was just as impotant as the sun
I always wondered why the Malfoy mansion was in the area of Stonehenge. The malfoys are relics of the past. They will never except the new ways of the wizarding world and the fact that the old ways of the pure bloods are dying out. Stomehenge, in the theory of Mr Simms, is a monument to the past, when the moon ruled over the sun as a source of power when the stoneage people hunted by the light of the full moon.
Sorry this was so long and a bit OT but it was an interesting show on National geographic channel BTW) and it airs again on August 11 if anyone is interested.
Arianhrod
Aug 5 2005, 10:36 AM
QUOTE
[B]The Rune Stones I was talking about earlier, Don't THESE look like the ones in the third movie? I know we're not allowed to canon the movies, but JKR did say there were some clues in it.
The one that's center/left really looks like one of the stones!
QUOTE
Eoh {Eihwaz}
Associations: Apple, Poplar, Yew, Horse
Eoh represents the link between the present, the past, the future and ones ancestors. It is used to remind us of our links to our predecessors, and also invoke the wisdom of the ancients for their guidance.
(As in Salazar Slytherin. )
It's also associated with mandrake!
QUOTE
I always wondered why the Malfoy mansion was in the area of Stonehenge. The malfoys are relics of the past. They will never except the new ways of the wizarding world and the fact that the old ways of the pure bloods are dying out.
I've wondered if the Malfoys aren't Druids in a modern sense of the word. They may not use runes but the British used ogham, which was another form of rune, only much younger. The ogham alphabet didn't take off until the mid 5th or 6th century.
I wish I had seen that!
firephoenix
Aug 5 2005, 08:26 PM
M - I am also really intrested in Stonehenge, but I my reseach I found it predates the Drurids and the Celtic people coming to England. It doesn't have anything to do with the Runes.
I found part of the Havamal. It's Odin,s poem about Runes:
Wounded I hung on a wind-swept gallows
For nine long nights,
Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odin,
Offered, myself to myself
The wisest know not from whence spring
The roots of that ancient rood.
They gave me no bread,
They gave me no mead,
I looked down;
With a loud cry
I took up runes;
From that tree I fell.
Nine lays of power
I learned from the famous Bolthor, Bestla' s father:
He poured me a draught of precious mead,
Mixed with magic Odrerir.
Waxed and throve well;
Word from word gave words to me,
Deed from deed gave deeds to me.
Runes you will find, and readable staves,
Very strong staves,
Very stout staves,
Staves that Bolthor stained,
Made by mighty powers,
Graven by the prophetic God.
For the Gods by Odin, for the Elves by Dain,
By Dvalin, too, for the Dwarves,
By Asvid for the hateful Giants,
And some I carved myself:
Thund, before man was made, scratched them,
Who rose first, fell thereafter.
Know how to cut them,
know how to read them,
Know how to stain them,
know how to prove them,
Know how to evoke them,
know how to score them,
Know how to send them,
know how to send them.
Better not to ask than to over-pledge
As a gift that demands a gift.
Better not to send
Than to slay too many.
The first charm I know is unknown to rulers
Or any of human kind;
Help it is named,
for help it can give
In hours of sorrow and anguish.
I know a second that the sons of men
Must learn who wish to be leeches.
I know a third: in the thick of battle,
If my need be great enough,
It will blunt the edges of enemy swords,
Their weapons will make no wounds.
I know a fourth:
it will free me quickly
If foes should bind me fast
With strong chains, a chant that makes
Fetters spring from the feet,
Bonds burst from the hands.
I know a fifth: no flying arrow,
Aimed to bring harm to men,
Flies too fast for my fingers to catch it
And hold it in mid-air.
I know a sixth:
It will save me if a man
Cut runes on a sapling' s roots
With intent to harm; it turns the spell;
The hater is harmed, not me.
If I see the hall
Ablaze around my bench mates,
Though hot the flames,
They shall feel nothing,
If I choose to chant the spell. [seventh]
I know an eighth:
That all are glad of,
Most useful to men:
If hate fester in the heart of a warrior,
It will soon calm and cure him.
I know a ninth:
When need I have
To shelter my ship on the flood,
The wind it calms, the waves it smoothes
And puts the sea to sleep
I know a tenth:
If troublesome ghosts
Ride the rafters aloft,
I can work it so they wander astray,
Unable to find their forms,
Unable to find their homes.
I know an eleventh:
When I lead to battle old comrades in-arms,
I have only to chant it behind my shield,
And unwounded they go to war,
Unwounded they come from war,
Unscathed wherever they are
I know a twelfth:
If a tree bear
A man hanged in a halter,
I can carve and stain strong runes
That will cause the corpse to speak,
Reply to whatever I ask.
I know a thirteenth
If I throw a cup of water over a warrior,
He shall not fall in the fiercest battle,
Nor sink beneath the sword,
I know a fourteenth, that few know:
If I tell a troop of warriors
About the high ones, Elves and Gods,
I can name them one by one.
(Few can the nitwit name.)
I know a fifteenth,
That first Thjodrerir
Sang before Delling's doors,
Giving power to Gods, prowess to Elves,
Fore-sight to Hroptatyr Odhinn,
I know a sixteenth:
If I see a girl
With whom it would please me to play,
I can turn her thoughts, can touch the heart
Of any white armed woman.
I know a seventeenth:
If I sing it,
The young girl will be slow to forsake me.
I know an eighteenth that I never tell
To maiden or wife of man,
A secret I hide from all
Except the love who lies in my arms,
Or else my own sister.
To learn to sing them, Loddfafnir,
Will take you a long time,
Though helpful they are if you understand them,
Useful if you use them,
Needful if you need them.
The Wise One has spoken words in the hall,
Needful for men to know,
Unneedful for trolls to know:
Hail to the speaker,
Hail to the knower,
Joy to him who has understood,
Delight to those who have listened.
There is Odin's song too. I'm stiil looking for it. It is my understanding (at this point) that the song is about the Rune alphabet. But some argue that the poem is the refernce to the alphabet and some say he is speaking of a completly different of Rune magic in the poem. (I hope I was clear) In either case I think there is imformation in both that we can apply to the books. Since this post is a mile long already, I'll wait to see what all of you have to say first.
Diamond - I know you have mentioned Odin in the past. Was it in the Merlin thread? Anyways, could you pull that information up again when you have time? :flowers: I have seen Merlin's name mentioned several times in Rune history too.
I really think this is the one all the rest broke off of. :ponder:
memyslfnI
Aug 5 2005, 10:02 PM
Firephoenix, I also have read that stonehenge predates the druids as well. your images in the pics seem to be of a similar time period though. I could be wrong.
Intersting when I started reading about runes I am seeing familiar images again that we have posted about. The teutonic symbolism for one!!!
Apples were mentioned in relation to Yew- QUOTE
Apple
The apple symbolizes eternal youth. Without consuming the golden apples of the goddess Idun, the gods would grow old and wither because their bodies are physically human (Crossley-Holland, 38
Interesting that Tom is the last remaining slytherin ancestor and he seeks immortality
We also spoke about the eagle owl and Harry riding the back of one in a dream in OOTP
QUOTE
Eagle
Teutonic mythology tells of an eagle who lives in the top branches of Yggdrasill, the World Ash Tree, and who watches the goings-on of the worlds below. One myth says that when this eagle first flapped its wings, the winds of the nine worlds were born. Since this bird sits in the highest position of observation in the Teutonic universe, the eagle symbolically came to represent the sky and the sovereignty, and were both associated with the omnipotent power of the all-father god, Odin (Davidson, Myths and Symbols, 91, 175).
Draco has an eagle owl. He feels he is in a position of sovereighty.
More on Eihwah - horse
Horse
The most important animal in early Teutonic culture was the horse, especially as a symbol of fertility and warrior virtue. The name of the World Ash Tree, "Yggdrasill," means "the horse of Yggr" (Yggr is another name for Odin). Horses were the gods' main means of support, since divinities had to ride across Bifrost in order to get to the lower worlds. In some cases, a sacred horse was held to understand the will of the gods more clearly than the priests. Odin owned an eight-legged steed, Sleipnir; Night had a horse, Hrimfaxi, who rode with her around the world every two and a half days; and Day's horse, Skinfaxi, lights up the sky and earth every day with his bright mane (Davidson, 53; Rydberg, 164).
there are so many interchangable themes here!!! I would love to post mere and more but i fear that my post will go into the vanishing cabinet as well as I need to put my once slleping son back to bed!!!
Chew on these for a bit and give me your thoughts!! I will check in the morning
Asphodel Wormwood
Aug 6 2005, 08:59 AM
QUOTE
RE: post #49 (by memyslfnI on Aug. 06 2005,4:02 am ) in this thread
Random piece of connective information -- the apple features in the tale of the Cu Roi (sorry, I don't have the accents on the letters). Cu Roi was able to keep himself alive by splitting his soul -- he put his soul in an apple (and then in the stomach of a salmon).