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Liliukalani
QUOTE(Strix @ Sep. 05 2005,12:12 pm)
I've done massive back-research on the Harry Potter books... and here's some clues - deaper meanings - I've found that might be important or help, or just bore you to death... if thats the case, sorry!

Voldemort's Main Goal in Life.... and the Yew tree:

First I thought.... Voldemort's main goal in life is not to kill Harry, Dumbledore, or mudbloods and muggles. It's to beat death. He tells Harry himself in the GOF in the cemetary. Because death is what Voldemort is most afraid of... it's his only self-percieved weakness.

Now... moving on from that... but with that in mind.... Take a look at all the scenes that include death, or have something to do with death in some way shape or form - excluding Sirius's death. Jo likes to leave us patterns in her books of clues to string together and I think I've found a some further information that might help with theories for the final book...

The scenes...


Cemetary (associated w/ death) in GOF
Thestrals (associated w/ death) in the dark forest during Hagrid's class in OOTP (And there is more, but you get the jist.)
Both scenes mention YEW trees. Well, in ancient times wands that were made from the yew tree where only used for evil magic and always associated with death!

Voldemort's wand is made out of yew... a symbol of death, itself.

Now... Harry's scar... a HUGE symbol in itself... not only because of what it does, but also what it means...  (IMHO)

In the runic alphabet, the zig-zag shape (similar to that of a lightning bolt) of Harry's scar is a rune called "eihwaz" & has specific meaning... and I quote....

Eihwaz:

MEANING: yew
DIVINATORY MEANINGS: change, initiation, confrontation of fears, turning point, death, transformation
MAGICAL USES: to bring about profound change, to ease a life transition -- (how about for easing Voldemort into death.. one piece of his soul at a time?)
ASSOCIATED MYTHS & DEITIES: Hel, Yggdrasil

ANALYSIS:

The yew tree has been associated with runes, magic and death in northern and western Europe since time immemorial. The reasons for this ancient association are numerous, but seem to principally derive from the fact that yews are evergreens which retain their greenery even through the death of winter, and because their red berries are symbolic of the blood of life. The yew is also extremely long-lived, thus effectively 'immortal'. Reverence for the yew dates back to before the times of the Celts, and continues today in Christian tradition. Eihwaz is the thirteenth rune in the fuşark, and marks the middle of the alphabet. (It is interesting to note that the Death card in the Tarot is also the thirteenth card.) This rune is the turning point in the runic journey, and represents the transformation phase of the initiatory process. All rites of passage, particularly those marking the transition into adulthood, contain the symbolism of death, the idea being that one's former 'self' has died and given birth to a new persona. Eihwaz is the passage through which we must enter the realm of Hel in order to gain the knowledge and acceptance of our own mortality, as well as those mysteries which can only be learned from the dark Lady of the dead. The process is a truly frightening one, but it is something we all must go through if we are to confront our deepest fears and emerge with the kind of wisdom that cannot be taught but must be experienced. Eihwaz is the gateway to this wisdom, and lies between life (jera) and rebirth (perş).

And JK herself made a point to make the Eihwaz rune stand out...

Order of the Pheonix; page 715 U.S. addition...

"How were the runes?" said Ron, yawning and stretching.
"I mistranslated 'ehwaz,'" said Hermione furiously. "It means 'partnership,' not 'defence,' I mixed it up with 'eihwaz.'"

That's a nice and sly little clue, if I ever saw one, I must admit! wink.gif

Now on to Harry's wand....

While Voldemort's wand is made of Yew... Harry's wand is made of Holly....

HOLLY* (Ilex aquifolium)

A beautiful white wood with an almost invisible grain; looks very much like ivory. Holly is associated with the death and rebirth symbolism of winter in both Pagan and Christian lore. In Arthurian legend, Gawain (representing the Oak King of summer) fought the Green Knight, who was armed with a holly club to represent winter. It is one of the three timbers used in the construction of chariot wheel shafts. It was used in spear shafts also. The qualities of a spear shaft are balance and directness, as the spear must be hefted to be thrown the holly indicates directed balance and vigour to fight if the cause is just. Holly may be used in spells having to do with sleep or rest, and to ease the passage of death.

BTW ... everyone seems to think that Harry can't use his wand to kill Voldemort... Says who??? The two wands just can't do battle with eachother at the exact same time.

(Forewarning... not for certain about the following, but its something to chew on... ) What was the clue she gave that something small and seemingly insignificant happens in the Chamber of Secrets that may seem like nothing now but later on will play a big roll? Was it Harry ending up in knockturn alley and hiding in the vanishing cabinet? Draco wanting the hand-of-glory? We know now, that all was significant... but was it the only thing? Maybe. But what if there's something else? So, if thats not the 'little insignificant clue', then what is?

Let's keep on the subject of the wands, now... because they seem to be extremely important to the story. What if that little thing that happened in the COS was Ron's wand breaking? Voldemort's power of death is in his wand... the yew itself is powerful.

Have you noticed that Ron did use that wand the entire year... it worked... but was messed up. BUT the ONLY spells that backfired on the person using the wands where the bad ones.... the curses!?

Hmmmm.... If we could just damage Voldemort's wand somehow... impale him on his own sword... send the last horcrux on... yes... yes... that would do it... after all ... he has Harry's mortal blood flowing through his veins now! (Maybe there's something to that too? Maybe, in being blinded by his wanting to 'touch' Harry, he made himself -the last horcrux- a little 'weaker' and easier to kill? )POOF! No more "He-Who-Is-Going-To-Be-Killed-By-Harry-In-The-End-Anyways!"

OK I'm getting a bit overly excited and rambling now. So I'll stop. smile.gif


Wow, what  a wonderfull piece of research and no I wasn't bored reading actually.
its nice to know that the TRio have wands that are significant to their personalities and I believe that in the end it might take all three to do What Harry believes he must do alone.
Alchemist Apprentice
QUOTE
RE: post #51 (by Liliukalani on Sep. 23 2005,9:05 pm ) in this thread


yes !   some  great points~ some of which have been brought up in the thread previously. My question is how will the woods and the wands be used in relation to the symbolism in your opinion?
Rhyden
Wow good job Strix and gidgx fanatstic research.Havn't got anything to add to it except WOW.
swanlilly
QUOTE(Strix @ Sep. 05 2005,13:12 )
? Maybe, in being blinded by his wanting to 'touch' Harry, he made himself -the last horcrux- a little 'weaker' and easier to kill? )POOF! No more "He-Who-Is-Going-To-Be-Killed-By-Harry-In-The-End-Anyways!"

OK I'm getting a bit overly excited and rambling now. So I'll stop. smile.gif


just read your research ... well done! I agree with your conclusions and I'm thinking that it will be interesting to see how the runes and lightening shapped scar plays out in the end .

and it makes me thing that maybe the scar was ligthening shapped because it was a death curse...

I wonder if Hermione saw this?
Arianhrod
Great research, Strix! Well done. Actually, there are a couple of other threads that might interest you: One is Everything Wands in Magical Theory and the other is Runes: Voldemort vs. Harry. You might want to check them out. Both threads deal with a lot of the issues being discussed here.

I think you're onto something. Keep up the good work.
IownaFirebolt
Wow, all that was amazing!  I had never heard such a thing before, and it was extremely interesting to read.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if this comes up in book seven!
~Gidg~
OK I've finally found a decent site on the holly tree. It is said to represents immortality.(same as Voldemort's yew wand)It guards against evil spirits and poisons and brings clear wisdom and courage and is believed to be especially sacred. Not sure what this is going to mean but Jo said that there is a reason that Harry has this particular wand
danig2002
wow! reading your post was something like hava a page ok JK notes... you're brain works great! excellent research, it's certainly true, JK can't deny! She used this stuff, it's obviuos!
Arianhrod
QUOTE
OK I've finally found a decent site on the holly tree. It is said to represents immortality.(same as Voldemort's yew wand)It guards against evil spirits and poisons and brings clear wisdom and courage and is believed to be especially sacred. Not sure what this is going to mean but Jo said that there is a reason that Harry has this particular wand

Holly=holy and yew=poison; they are opposites, just as Harry and LV are opposites. It doesn't matter that Fawkes' tail feather is in both wands, really. It's the wand woods that are important.
~JulieNeola~
QUOTE(Strix @ Sep. 05 2005,1:12 pm)
I've done massive back-research on the Harry Potter books... and here's some clues - deaper meanings - I've found that might be important or help, or just bore you to death... if thats the case, sorry!

Voldemort's Main Goal in Life.... and the Yew tree:

First I thought.... Voldemort's main goal in life is not to kill Harry, Dumbledore, or mudbloods and muggles. It's to beat death. He tells Harry himself in the GOF in the cemetary. Because death is what Voldemort is most afraid of... it's his only self-percieved weakness.

Now... moving on from that... but with that in mind.... Take a look at all the scenes that include death, or have something to do with death in some way shape or form - excluding Sirius's death. Jo likes to leave us patterns in her books of clues to string together and I think I've found a some further information that might help with theories for the final book...

The scenes...


Cemetary (associated w/ death) in GOF
Thestrals (associated w/ death) in the dark forest during Hagrid's class in OOTP (And there is more, but you get the jist.)
Both scenes mention YEW trees. Well, in ancient times wands that were made from the yew tree where only used for evil magic and always associated with death!

Voldemort's wand is made out of yew... a symbol of death, itself.

Now... Harry's scar... a HUGE symbol in itself... not only because of what it does, but also what it means...  (IMHO)

In the runic alphabet, the zig-zag shape (similar to that of a lightning bolt) of Harry's scar is a rune called "eihwaz" & has specific meaning... and I quote....

Eihwaz:

MEANING: yew
DIVINATORY MEANINGS: change, initiation, confrontation of fears, turning point, death, transformation
MAGICAL USES: to bring about profound change, to ease a life transition -- (how about for easing Voldemort into death.. one piece of his soul at a time?)
ASSOCIATED MYTHS & DEITIES: Hel, Yggdrasil

ANALYSIS:

The yew tree has been associated with runes, magic and death in northern and western Europe since time immemorial. The reasons for this ancient association are numerous, but seem to principally derive from the fact that yews are evergreens which retain their greenery even through the death of winter, and because their red berries are symbolic of the blood of life. The yew is also extremely long-lived, thus effectively 'immortal'. Reverence for the yew dates back to before the times of the Celts, and continues today in Christian tradition. Eihwaz is the thirteenth rune in the fuşark, and marks the middle of the alphabet. (It is interesting to note that the Death card in the Tarot is also the thirteenth card.) This rune is the turning point in the runic journey, and represents the transformation phase of the initiatory process. All rites of passage, particularly those marking the transition into adulthood, contain the symbolism of death, the idea being that one's former 'self' has died and given birth to a new persona. Eihwaz is the passage through which we must enter the realm of Hel in order to gain the knowledge and acceptance of our own mortality, as well as those mysteries which can only be learned from the dark Lady of the dead. The process is a truly frightening one, but it is something we all must go through if we are to confront our deepest fears and emerge with the kind of wisdom that cannot be taught but must be experienced. Eihwaz is the gateway to this wisdom, and lies between life (jera) and rebirth (perş).

And JK herself made a point to make the Eihwaz rune stand out...

Order of the Pheonix; page 715 U.S. addition...

"How were the runes?" said Ron, yawning and stretching.
"I mistranslated 'ehwaz,'" said Hermione furiously. "It means 'partnership,' not 'defence,' I mixed it up with 'eihwaz.'"

That's a nice and sly little clue, if I ever saw one, I must admit! wink.gif

Now on to Harry's wand....

While Voldemort's wand is made of Yew... Harry's wand is made of Holly....

HOLLY* (Ilex aquifolium)

A beautiful white wood with an almost invisible grain; looks very much like ivory. Holly is associated with the death and rebirth symbolism of winter in both Pagan and Christian lore. In Arthurian legend, Gawain (representing the Oak King of summer) fought the Green Knight, who was armed with a holly club to represent winter. It is one of the three timbers used in the construction of chariot wheel shafts. It was used in spear shafts also. The qualities of a spear shaft are balance and directness, as the spear must be hefted to be thrown the holly indicates directed balance and vigour to fight if the cause is just. Holly may be used in spells having to do with sleep or rest, and to ease the passage of death.

BTW ... everyone seems to think that Harry can't use his wand to kill Voldemort... Says who??? The two wands just can't do battle with eachother at the exact same time.

(Forewarning... not for certain about the following, but its something to chew on... ) What was the clue she gave that something small and seemingly insignificant happens in the Chamber of Secrets that may seem like nothing now but later on will play a big roll? Was it Harry ending up in knockturn alley and hiding in the vanishing cabinet? Draco wanting the hand-of-glory? We know now, that all was significant... but was it the only thing? Maybe. But what if there's something else? So, if thats not the 'little insignificant clue', then what is?

Let's keep on the subject of the wands, now... because they seem to be extremely important to the story. What if that little thing that happened in the COS was Ron's wand breaking? Voldemort's power of death is in his wand... the yew itself is powerful.

Have you noticed that Ron did use that wand the entire year... it worked... but was messed up. BUT the ONLY spells that backfired on the person using the wands where the bad ones.... the curses!?

Hmmmm.... If we could just damage Voldemort's wand somehow... impale him on his own sword... send the last horcrux on... yes... yes... that would do it... after all ... he has Harry's mortal blood flowing through his veins now! (Maybe there's something to that too? Maybe, in being blinded by his wanting to 'touch' Harry, he made himself -the last horcrux- a little 'weaker' and easier to kill? )POOF! No more "He-Who-Is-Going-To-Be-Killed-By-Harry-In-The-End-Anyways!"

OK I'm getting a bit overly excited and rambling now. So I'll stop. smile.gif


Wow...strix you really did your homework. I loved your entire research, very well thought out. As for your little theory at the end, its great I really hope your right and LV ends up killing himself in the end.
~Gidg~
QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Oct. 13 2005,5:41 am)
QUOTE
OK I've finally found a decent site on the holly tree. It is said to represents immortality.(same as Voldemort's yew wand)It guards against evil spirits and poisons and brings clear wisdom and courage and is believed to be especially sacred. Not sure what this is going to mean but Jo said that there is a reason that Harry has this particular wand

Holly=holy and yew=poison; they are opposites, just as Harry and LV are opposites. It doesn't matter that Fawkes' tail feather is in both wands, really. It's the wand woods that are important.


Are you serious? You don't think that Voldemort and Harry having wands with the only 2 feathers that Fawkes gave, in their wands are'nt important? If that wasn't important then Jo wouldn't have made such a point of it in every book!
Arianhrod
Because the tail feather couldn't care less about the personality traits of the people who owns the wands. If it made one whit of difference, do you really think that Fawkes' tail feather would have chosen LV, of all people? I highly doubt it. The only thing that having the same feathers does as far as we can see is that the wands won't work properly against each other. That's it.
~Gidg~
So you don't think anything of the fact that the most evil wizard of all time shares a wand core with the only person who can kill him? And that that wand core comes from the tail of a Phoenix, a bird who is powerfully magical and who's song strikes fear into the hearts of the impure?
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