cjopbj
Aug 11 2006, 01:09 PM
Maybe I missed something but what was the shock that caused Tonks to change her patronus and appearance? Harry and crew thought she was in love with Sirius and that was the shock but we now know that she wasn't. I can understand her being upset at Sirius's death but not to this extent. It was said in the book that a "severe" shock can cause someone to change their patronus. Did I miss something?
carolina_cannonball
Aug 11 2006, 01:17 PM
I think her patronus changed because she was love forelorn over Lupin. She was in love with him and he was all she could think about so it took the wolf shape. It was mistaken as a dog patronus/Sirius by the rest of the gang.
Spinks
Aug 11 2006, 01:47 PM
Maybe shock isn't the only thing that makes a Patronus change.
I don't think she was thinking about Lupin all the time just because she was in love with him, I think it was a mixture of being madly in love with him and knowing that he was in almost constant danger from Greyback. It didn't help that he was probably trying to avoid her, so she couldn't really speak to him about her worries or keep checking that he was all right. So Lupin was always on her mind and the Patronus reflected that.
Or maybe it was shock, but the shock was finding out what he was doing for the Order.
marielle
Aug 11 2006, 05:30 PM
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nympheart
Aug 11 2006, 06:01 PM
I think you guys nailed it. Tonks's mad obsession with Remus was fueled by regection. That and her fear for him caused him to be ever-present in her thoughts. Maybe the happiest thing she could think of was being with him and that also influenced that Patronus's form.
Aislinn
Aug 11 2006, 06:07 PM
QUOTE(Spinks @ Aug 11 2006, 02:47 PM) [snapback]910867[/snapback]
Maybe shock isn't the only thing that makes a Patronus change.
I don't think she was thinking about Lupin all the time just because she was in love with him, I think it was a mixture of being madly in love with him and knowing that he was in almost constant danger from Greyback. It didn't help that he was probably trying to avoid her, so she couldn't really speak to him about her worries or keep checking that he was all right. So Lupin was always on her mind and the Patronus reflected that.
Or maybe it was shock, but the shock was finding out what he was doing for the Order.
I agree that it was probably a combination of both of these issues. I also think that one of the reasons was literary - JKR typically introduces a concept early in a book that then becomes an issue for someone later on in the story. Showing us Tonks' change in ability to metamorphose, a dampening of her magical ability, is similar to how Dumbledore describes Merope in the pensieve trip back to the time of Tom's birth.(pg.262)
QUOTE
But it is my belief - I am guessing again, but I am sure I am right - that when her husband abandoned her, Merope stopped using magic. I do not think that she wanted to be a witch any longer. Of course, it is also possible that her unrequited love and the attendant despair sapped her of her powers; that can happen.
And we have seen it happen in Tonks - we just don't realize that it is Lupin and not Sirius for whom she was pining.
firekeeper
Aug 12 2006, 03:42 PM
I think maybe the shock was Sirius' death and the fear that something bad like that might happen to Lupin. Maybe that is why her patronus changed shape.
minime
Aug 12 2006, 11:47 PM
QUOTE(Aislinn @ Aug 11 2006, 04:07 PM) [snapback]911136[/snapback]
I agree that it was probably a combination of both of these issues. I also think that one of the reasons was literary - JKR typically introduces a concept early in a book that then becomes an issue for someone later on in the story. Showing us Tonks' change in ability to metamorphose, a dampening of her magical ability, is similar to how Dumbledore describes Merope in the pensieve trip back to the time of Tom's birth.(pg.262)
QUOTE
But it is my belief - I am guessing again, but I am sure I am right - that when her husband abandoned her, Merope stopped using magic. I do not think that she wanted to be a witch any longer. Of course, it is also possible that her unrequited love and the attendant despair sapped her of her powers; that can happen.
And we have seen it happen in Tonks - we just don't realize that it is Lupin and not Sirius for whom she was pining.
I totally agree, but I also tend to think Jo introduced this because Harry's patronus will change in book seven. We have clear markers that Tonks is upset about something throughout the book without her patronus changing, which makes me question why throw that tidbit in there? The only thing I can come up with is that someone else's patronus will change, and Harry's is the only one that makes any sense at all to me. I think that the shock over seeing Dumbledore murdered will change Harry's patronus to a phoenix - Harry is Dumbledore's man through and through after all.
fawksfeather
Aug 13 2006, 11:39 AM
My reasoning for her patronus change in book six was that because of her love for Lupin and his devotion to her he had become her protector. Just like James is the protector of Harry, Lupin was now that for Tonks. So that even though she feared his death as he feared hers, both being so involved with the order, Lupin was there to protect her in patronus form.
Watermelon
Aug 13 2006, 01:22 PM
Actually, I'm wondering if it's foreshadowing Snape's patronus. He was the one who made fun of it. Could his patronus have changed over the course of the books?
cjopbj
Aug 13 2006, 02:56 PM
QUOTE(minime @ Aug 13 2006, 04:47 AM) [snapback]912932[/snapback]
I totally agree, but I also tend to think Jo introduced this because Harry's patronus will change in book seven. We have clear markers that Tonks is upset about something throughout the book without her patronus changing, which makes me question why throw that tidbit in there? The only thing I can come up with is that someone else's patronus will change, and Harry's is the only one that makes any sense at all to me. I think that the shock over seeing Dumbledore murdered will change Harry's patronus to a phoenix - Harry is Dumbledore's man through and through after all.
Ooooo, that's a clever thought. I would think, however, Harry's might turn into a Gryffin or even a lion. He will become his own man, not his father's nor Dumbledore's.
mystic angel 46
Aug 13 2006, 10:17 PM
Could be her emotions tend to rule her magic which may explain her changed appearance and her patronus. The bigger the upheaval emotionaly, the greater the change.
obsessedWithSnape
Aug 14 2006, 08:17 AM
QUOTE
I totally agree, but I also tend to think Jo introduced this because Harry's patronus will change in book seven. We have clear markers that Tonks is upset about something throughout the book without her patronus changing, which makes me question why throw that tidbit in there? The only thing I can come up with is that someone else's patronus will change, and Harry's is the only one that makes any sense at all to me. I think that the shock over seeing Dumbledore murdered will change Harry's patronus to a phoenix - Harry is Dumbledore's man through and through after all.
Or maybe Snape's will change into a phoenix...
Just a thought. Of course, only acceptable for those on the good!Snape camp
jadedragon
Aug 20 2006, 08:34 AM
Interesting! Maybe Ginny's patronus will change into a stag, because she is worried about Harry. Harry's might change into a griffin, but who knows! One thing is sure: a patronus only changes if the carrier is going through a really tough time. I'm happy Tonks got together with Lupin; they both deserve it.
atsimll
Aug 21 2006, 09:27 AM
Tonk's Patronus change was about Lupin.
But showing it was mainly to show that emotions can influence their magic (as in Voldemort's mother).
Love protecting baby Harry, Love (Harry's power), Harry, Magic effected by Emotions (becomes stronger or weaker or changes), vanquish Voldemort in end.
> Maybe there is some connection or it fits somewhere or somehow.
About the Patronus, I really don't think any Patronus is going to change in book 7, although we may see them been used for communication between the Order.
Theoris Black
Aug 29 2006, 03:45 PM
I agree with what everyone else has been saying: Tonks' patronus changed because she had feelings for someone who didn't want to love her back. Actually, the thing I would really like to know is what her patronus was before HBP. Was it mentioned in OotP, or am I missing something?
I don't know how I would feel about Harry's patronus changing. I really like him having that connection to his father and his past. On the other hand, Harry needs to form an identity for himself.
harrysjulie
Aug 29 2006, 04:04 PM
Ever been in love with someone who didn't or wouldn't love you back?
There are days when you'd rather not feel
anything, than the pain in your heart. This, I think, is a painful enough event to cause the Patronus change.
Imagine your Patronus is an Eagle because it represents honour and strength. Your heart, in a similar state to Tonks', might not be up to the state of an Eagle. It now appears as a creature that (to you) represents a more mundane/depressive animal.
I'm not sure I made myself clear but I hope some of you will understand what I'm saying
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