Does anyone know if Snape knew Occulmency or Legmency (sorry about the spelling) prior to when he was an adult teacher at Hogwarts? Did he know either as a child? I'm wondering about this because it could indicate what exactly Snape is trying to hide. If he learned Occulmency as an adult than I'd say it was to protect his spy status (whether on the good side or bad). If he knew it at Hogwarts when he was a student I think it indicates that he is hiding something personal that might not have anything to do with Harry. Perhaps he was trying to hide his half-blood status or the fact he grew up poor. It may have bearing on why Dumbledore trusts him. He may have good - yet very personal - reasons to hide his true self.

I think he learned it before Voldemort fell. He could've learned it from Voldemort himself has probably all the Death Eaters did. By them knowing how to block minds the Ministry would have a hard time knowing if they were telling the truth or not.

As Sirius said in GOF Snape new more dark magic than any other kid in the year, in their first year. I could imagine him being really interested in certain branches of magic & burying himself in those subjects.
We know from tbe OoTP chapter, 'Snapes worst memory' that he had a very unhappy childhood, he probably withdrew into himself, & studied hard as a form of escape. It may also be possible that this was an innate talent he had, that developed by itself. If little Tom Riddle can develop control over weak minds & a certain degree of legilimancy in an orphanage without any instruction or understanding, it's possible that Snape had those powers naturally.

It's probably certain, as Mikey mentioned, that he acquired the skill before associating himself with The Dark Lord. Assuming that Snape is inherently talented at learning magic (be it motivation from a bleak childhood, or simple loathing towards fellow colleagues) why wouldn’t someone with such a gift not want to specialize in all areas? It’s one thing to have a good knack for Herbology, Potions and Divination; but it’s impressive and puts one at a great advantage when mastering not only the basics of core subjects, but also the most practical. Drawing from flash backs, Occulmency seems like a very sensible choice for Snape, who chooses seclusion. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why Harry (who is quite social at times) struggles with the concept.

I think that he may have started to learn Occulmency at school. Lupin did comment at the end of HBP that they all always knew he was a great Occulmen. When Lupin and the others left school we don't know if they had further contact with Snape to know. Snape was in the Order officialy after LV defeat (please correct if I'm wrong) so why would he need to conceal his thoughts from someone who everybody believes gone?

what I want to know is how would you study occlumency is there teachers do you just read about it or what

Snape seems to be quite a talented wizard. My guess is that he probably started to learn it while at school and is probably self taught. I think there is more to snape than we know, he certainly seems to like an hide his real self whether that is good or evil we will eventually find out.

As to why, I think snape likes to have control and not let others get the better of him ( possibly due to his childhood) and becoming an expert in Occulmency and Legilimency (sorry about the spelling) would certainly be appealing to someone that wants a huge amount of control over things. No one would be able to really know what he was thinking and he could find out what others were thinking.

I think that Snape already knew Occlumency from his childhood, to keep his parents (at least his mother) out of his mind. Or maybe even to keep Dumbledore or any other teachers to read his thoughts.

This topic belongs to History of Magic as it deals with a pre-canon event.

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I think Snape would have started learning Occulmency at Hogwarts but I think it took LV's training for him to master it.
LV maybe evil but he seems to be a very good teacher or maybe he just motivated with fear of pain or death.
The DE's seem better trained than the Aurors or the Order members.
Bellatrix was able to train Draco fairly quickly in Occulmency.

I think that as suggested by mikey, Snape would have naturally developed Occlumency/ Legilimency in some form. My view is that the basic idea of occlumency is to clear your mind, make it blank so that if its invaded through legilimency, the secrets you want kept will be safe. I think Snapes ability in this area may stem form a desire to clear his mind of his troubled childhood, to block out the painful memories of the past and that through this, the skills of occlumency began to manifest, and he, Snape began to use it to his advantage, developing it further.



I would question how many ministry wizards would be trained in this field. I got the impression in ootp that it was uncommon, and probably little known. I can of course see it's advantages during Voldemorts reign of terror, for use against accused death eaters during trials but I would imagine Veritaserum would be better relied upon (even though J.K. said that veritaserum can be... i suppose overpowered? to be made inaffective by the drinker.) And I'd also wonder whether Voldemort would specifically train his followers to be able to block their minds against him, I of course see the advantages of his doing so as outlined by padfootbitme but I myself wouldnt imagine LV teaching his followers legilimency on the basis that it's like pepper spray it can be used in defence or an attack, it can work either way and I'm not sure LV would give his followers that power.




Hmmm ...I dont doubt that Bellatrix is intelligent but when it comes to the case of teaching Malfoy I would wonder whether his ability to grasp the concept and ability so quickly came from her teaching skills or well, his....natural ability? I mean Snape said those who proudly wear their hearts on their sleeves will fail in occlumency, well I think in that case Draco had a head start because he isn't exactly Mr. Sensitive & emotional, he is a remorseless bully and a controller, self centred and arrogant. i think these traits gave him a, as I said kind of headstart in the whole "shutting down your emotions" side of occlumency, So after that I imagine it's really just practicing and fine tuning technique

Legitimency seems very useful for anyone trying to gain power over another but Occulmency seems to me to be all about defense. Malfoy began learning Occulmency from Bellitrix when he actually had something to hide. And perhaps even more to the point, when he no longer had his powerful father around to protect him. If Snape learned Occulmency before he became involved with LV what was he trying to hide? It must have been something he was trying to hide from adult wizards. Not just other kids. Most kids can't perform legitimency.

Not to stray too far but I was thinking also about his name Severus and that cutting curse Harry learned from HBP - Semptra-whatever "Cutters" is a word used to describe people who inflict harm on themselves by purposely cutting their own skin. Generally teens, mostly girls.

One thing we've learned from Aunt Petuna's never ending battle with Harry's hair is that wizards don't seem to have lots of control over their own appearance. If Snape washed his hair a thousand times would it still be oily?

These seem like random thoughts but I'm just trying to form a picture in my mind of a young child so afraid of revealing his thoughts to adults. Such a lack of trust in kids 11 years old or younger is a bit scary.

Azkaban's_Angel, you make a good point about the Dark Lord not teaching his followers because it would be giving them power -- and it might even go to explain why Aurors and such wouldn't be trained: because it would give them power. Of course, you can turn this argument on its head when you think about trust. Surely a non-offensive organisation, such as the Ministry, would see no problem in teaching its servants to use Occlumency and Legilimency because they trusted the employees not to abuse it. Rather like giving policemen or equivalents weapons.

Now ... as for the chronology of Snape's learning of Occlumency, what I think of is the fact that, when hurt by others, people try to defend themselves. A lot of people often try to deny bad things are happening to them, or shut them out of their minds, think of better things &c. It is quite possible that even before he learned of a magical answer, Snape suppressed a lot of his negative feelings and emotional pain because it was simply easier to deal with. Memories of bullying would be well hidden within his head and so, when it finally came to using Occlumency, he was already very able. This might also explain why he is such a remarkable Occlumens at the moment. And, as to cjopbj's point of why Snape would want to hide things ... this would also be an answer: he wanted to hide them from himself. Wasn't it Dumbledore who said that it doesn't do to dwell on dreams and forget to live? If you're tormented by bullying and pain -- it's very hard to think about 'living'.

If Snape really is a on the bad side then Voldemort may have taught him Legitimency befor he started to be a spy in the order to help him convince Dumbldore.
When Snape was teaching Harry Occlumency he seemed pretty mad when harry sees some of his memorys from his childhood and about his parents etc. Could the amount of determination also contribute to how fast somebody learns legitimency? We know that Harry secretly wanted to keep having the dreams, where as I would imagin that both Snape and Draco would want to be able to block their minds as well as possible given what was in them.