Well, it's high time we opened another window on this long running topic.

You can find a link to the old thread right here

Carry on!

Narya
Leaky Mod

I can't help but think that Harry will not be defeating LV with any of his superior magical prowess--it seems to me that the confrontation with Snape at the end of HBP was proof of that to us. Harry is just no match in a face-to-face magical duel, and Harry's only got so much time to improve his magical skills all while hunting down and destroying the horcruxes and evading the MoM folks who are sure to be tailing him and any attempts for LV. DD said Harry's strength was in his ability to love--that must be how LV will be defeated. But how will that tricksy JK make it happen?

I'm right there with you, HeleneB. I think LV will be his own downfall, somehow, but I can't see how, exactly. Maybe Harry's ability to love will somehow enable him to show mercy to LV, which will lead to LV doing something that causes his own destruction, similar to how the AK curse backfired and destroyed LV 16 years ago. Argh! There must be some other clue we're missing!

i assume Harry will be hunting and destroying Horcruxes. after all of them are destroyed, i, personally, would LOVE it if Neville finished him off.

maybe harry will just give voldemort a and then he'll melt..
haha im just kidding
but
yeah i dunno
we'll just have
to wait and see i
guess...

Having spent much of the summer re-reading the HP books, it occured to me that it is not in Harry's character to perform the Avada Kedavra curse on Lord Voldemort. In the past, his attempts to perform unspeakable curses have failed because he did not have the required malice in his heart to back up his utterances. Harry is a being of love -- this is why Voldemort fled his body during the battle in Book V. While I do believe Harry will triumph over Voldemort, I don't believe it will be through the same means the Dark Lord would have used to kill Harry.

The prophesy doesn't literally say one of them will kill the other. It says, "Neither can live while the other survives." Voldemort, in an attempt to kill Harry, might again find his curse rebounding. He may not literally die, but again reduce himself to near-death, for in real life, does evil ever truly die? No. But neither does good.

Of course Snape or Wormtail (nah) might end up doing the killing. There may be more significance to the two being roomies in HBP than we currently know.

At any rate, I trust JKR to do the perfect thing with this coming story. She has a pretty good track record.

Yeah, good thinking. Although I'm not quite sure about what you said Harry being to good-spirited to use an Unforgivable Curse. I think he could actually use one on Voldemort seeing as he was the one who killed his parents and so many other good and kind people. So probably his hatred towards the Dark Lord is so big that he could actually manage to kill him ...

Well I think Harry actually will not defeat Voldemort but somebody like Snape or a different character (Aberforth, Lupin, ...) but somehow not Harry.
However I think Harry will definitely destroy all the Horcruxes but then something will prevent him from killing the Dark Lord whether it is his good heart or something less I can not say. I was also thinking that somebody like Narcissa or Lucius could kill Voldy if he kills Draco as a punishment but seeing as Voldemort said he'd also kill Narcissa and Lucius they probably won't be able to do so anymore ...

You could certainly understand him doing that. But I think if JKR is counterpositioning Harry as the representation of love with Voldemort as the representation of hate, he may not chose one of Voldemort's own methods to resolve this conflict. His love is what makes him more powerful than Voldemort. Harry's own (healthy) love for himself and for life may make him unable to carry out the curse.

That's not to say he couldn't kill LV in self defense in some other manner.

I agree in that i think harry's love will kill voldemort so that harry's soul can stay in tact. Probably something to do with the fact that he now has harry's blood running through his veins. Although my own selfish idea is that there will be an epic battle at hogwarts ending with the two of them fighting near DD's tomb, they cast aside their wants for some reason, and harry kills him with Gryffindor's sword. That would just be too awesome.

Sounds like a great battle! In this scenario, Harry is defending himself without consciously choosing to kill, so if he offs LV, it won't be via a cold-blooded killing curse.

I don't know, he tried to use an Unforgiveable Curse on Bellatrix right after witnessing her kill Sirius; I think he had quite enough hate for her. But I agree that there is no real malice in him. Even after what he saw, he really couldn't enjoy causing her pain, and so was unable to make the UV work.

Hi all, Well I was thinking that when Harry kills LV, he will be using a potion that he gets from his Mom. Or a spell that she left the info. on, there at the house. And Harry will find it when he gos there. I do not feel that Harry will use AK or any other Dark Arts, to do in LV. Harry will be up for any and all things, as far as power gos. Harry will have all he needs. DD says in book 6 page 510, that Harry has been handed uniquely deadly weapons! By LV himself, when he tried to kill Harry. DD also says on page 510, that Harry has the tools for the job. Also JKR has been, I feel, leading Harry up to the point where he will get or learn how to use all of his powers. He knows a lot more than he thinks he knows. We will get to see all of this soon. So I am looking to see a lot of action, with Harry and the DE's as well as the Horcruxes and LV.

Concerning other Potter topics I have usually an opinion (which may be completely wrong in the end). But I have to admit, that I have absolutely no idea about the final confrontation. Except that it will happen in book 7.

Arrrrgh! I so want that book!!!

I hope one of the things that happen. Will be when LV and Harry fight, and the wands meet. LV sees Harrys last spells reappear. The spells would be Harry distroying LV's Horcruxes. This would throw LV off his game. Even scare LV, LV would realize at a very bad time he wasnt immortal.

Of course it wont be the only thing that happens. Im still thinking on it. I hope it is worth the wait....I can wait

Wow GMC! That's a great theory! I think it can very much be possible. It would become really exciting, the description of Voldy's face when he comes to know that he's mortal.
But somehow, that wouldn't be the last thing to finish him off. Voldemort would, of couse, be highly scared but I am sure he won't give up at this stage on any rate.
I think it has been mentioned before that harry's blood in LV's body would be of great importance.
I just can't imagine what the end can truly be.
Oh book 7! Please hurry up!

Forgive me if this has been posted before but i have a little theory about how horcruxes may be destroyed. Because a horcux holds a portion of the soul could a dementor - IF it could be controlled - be used to suck the soul out of the horcrux. If so would the soul be destroyed, ie: by being consumed by the dementor, or would you still be able to extract it somehow from the dementor, ie: the dementor would become a horcrux. Like to hear what you think

Well, I don't thing that is important. The important thing is to find the horcrux and then the question of how to destroy it comes. It would be very difficult to find it but I think the destroying part would be easy.
Remember the riddle's diary? It wasn't destroyed by any complex means. Harry just took a fang of the monster(which is sharp and full of poison) and inserted it in the diary. The soul within it would have felt the pain (maybe) and was destroyed. Or simply when the diary was torn and ruined its purpose as the keeper of the soul went away as it was no longer there.
My point is that if the objest is simply destroyed( i.e. by burning, crushing, breaking, etc) it would no longer be a horcrux more than an object. I hope you get my point.
But maybe your theory can come true if the situation arises that it is important not to finish the soul but the object(or something like that), we never know what JKR might come up with!

But could a tamed dementor - probably impossible - be used to destroy a horcrux. They can't all be easily destroyed, look at Dumbledores hand and the rigmorall they had to go through to get the RAB one. Harry didnt exactly have an easy time in the Chamber of Secrets and remember a Basilisk Fang is not easy to come by and is an incredibly poisonous magical object.

***puts on modly hat***

Just a caution that this thread is a discussion about Lord Voldemort's Defeat, so to avoid going off topic into a Horcrux discussion (many of which can be found in the Princely Nook), please be sure to make your comments about horcruxes relate to LV's defeat.

***takes off modly hat***

I actually like the idea of a Dementor being the one to remove the final soul residing in LV. That way Harry will have contributed to LV's defeat by destroying the horcruxes which have made LV immortal, but did not require Harry to kill LV.

Hmm I'm not entirely sure that the dementor idea would work simply because everyone is so sure that the dementors are on LV's side. However that would make a very interesting plot twist

Lol! sorry for being ever-so-slightly off topic. Yes, it certainly would be a good ending for all, Harry not having to actually part-take in the killing part. Maybe i'll post my theory in the Princely Nook now.

I love this theory. It would give Voldemort one good slap in the face, much deserved, I must say.

If anyone but Harry kills Voldemort the entire series will be a sham. I will accept no other way. You cant build up the main character with facing voldemort a bunch of times, the prophecy, the chosen one talk, and then not have him finsih the job. It will not end like that.

Well, this is what I've been thinking for a while now after reding the topic about Lily's secret.

Harry's power is love. That is the "power the Dark Lord knows not" as stated in the prophecy. Dumbledore told Harry repeatedly that it only means love, that love is Harry's thing. In fact I remember him being a bit frustrated when Harry kept insisting that there must be more or else he could never defeat LV. Love is much overlooked, especially by LV, but in the Department of Mysteries there is a Love Room, which is kept locked at all times because the force inside it is so terrible. Wonderful, but terrible at the same time.

I agree that Harry is not able to kill Voldie with AK, both because it would be way out of his character to cast AK, but also because as far as magical skills go, Harry is no match to Voldemort. So it has to be something else. I also think that it may just have to be Harry to finish VD just because Harry is the main character and the entire series has kinda been building up to that. (I personally wouldn't mind if it was someone else, perhaps one of VD's own DE's.)

Okay, how could our just-out-of-Hogwarts Harry possibly be able to defeat VD? With love. I remember someone quoting JK having said that the answer is right in front of us. Killing VD with love would be an answer that has been right there all along.

Simple enough. But how could it actually work out? We have been told that VD feels physical pain trying to possess/touch Harry. We aso know that Harry's wand is a twin to VD´s, so in case of them trying to duel again, their wands would make it impossible to solve anything with magic. So I think it might be that Harry has to take VD down with his bare hands. The power of love in him will make it painful for VD, but Harry will not feel anything, as Dumbledore used to point out. This far it has always been VD grabbing Harry against Harry's will, but what if it was the other way around and Harry deliberately touched VD and, say, stared at him? JK has also said that Lily's eyes were important and especially that that Harry has her eyes. Harry having Lily's eyes is one of the most popular answers to the question what is Lily's secret. JK has also admitted that eyes and eye contact could be significant:


QUOTE
"Now, can I ask you: are there any special wizarding powers in your world that depend on the wizard using their eyes to do something? Bit like..."
"Why do you want to know this?"
"I just vaguely wondered."
"Why?"
"Well because everyone always goes on about how Harry's got Lily Potter's eyes." "Aren't you smart? There is something, maybe, coming about that. I'm going to say no more, very clever."


Harry also has Lily's love in him. So maybe by touching and by doing something with his eyes he could ultimately destroy VD. Especially if Harry was, for exaple, in a situation where someone he loves (=cares about, such as Hermione or Ron) would be threatened. Then he might act just like Lily and step up to save his friend, putting his own life at risk. In that kind of situation his love would, on top of everything, be active instead of passive as it has been until now. I mean, there mere echo of Lily's love has kept him safe and made it painful for VD to touch him (in other words, he has been loved). What would happen if the love HE is actually capable of feeling was added (in other words, he would love actively and act out of love for someone)?

If this theory seems a bit unexciting, you could take it further and add the Love Room in the equation. It has been suggested that Lily worked in the Department of Mysteries and might have been in charge of the Love Room (maybe even so that it was locked only after her death). Again, JK has said that what Harry's parents did for livng will be important. So maybe Harry will lure VD into the Ministry and (thanks to her mother) be able to unleash Love upon him. If the power inside was able to melt Sirius's knife (a weapon, by the way, something of an opposite of love), it would probably be enough to finish off Voldemort.


I also think that freyja put it quite nicely in the Lily's secret topic (which I can't properly quote since that old part has been closed, but I copied it anyway. It's the post 225 if anyone is interested):
"There is a lot more to say...but I will just say that we have already seen the door to the Love Room in the DoM...in OotP, I am positive that the door that melts Sirius' knife is the Love Room. Since when has Rowling EVER shown us a door that we will not one day open??"



So these were my thoughts. I know that whatever JK has cooking will eventually make us all look quite stupid, as always. I can't wait!!

I wouldn't look at it as being a sham, though. I'm not at all fond of a 17-year old boy/man having to take someone's life. I like the idea that Harry will do what he must to make LV mortal again, but that something/one will cause LV's ultimate demise. The Prophecy only has power because LV has bought into to it. There is nothing that requires Harry to be the one to "vanquish" the Dark Lord.

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
US Edition
Chapter Thirty Three
Pages 632-633

"You know of course, that they have called this boy my downfall?" Voldemort said softly, his red eyes upon Harry, whose scar began to burn so fiercely that he almost screamed in agony. "You all know that on the night I lost my powers and my body, I tried to kill him. His mother died in the attempt to save him- and unwittingly provided him with a protection I admit I had not foreseen.... I could not touch the boy."
Voldemort raised one of his long white fingers and put it very close to Harry's cheek.
His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice.... This is old magic. I should have remember it, I was foolish to overlook it... but no matter. I can touch him now."
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him and thought his head would burst with the pain. Voldemort laughed softly in his ear, then took his finger away and continued addressing the Death Eaters.
"I miscalculated, my friends, I admit it. My curse was deflected by the woman's foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon myself-"

skip to page 656

"My father's bone, naturally, meant that we would have to come here, where he was buried. But the blood of a foe.... Wormtail would have had me used any wizard, would you not, Wormtail? Any wizard who had hated me... as so many of them still do. But I knew the one I must use, if I was to rise again, more powerfull than I had been when I had fallen. I wanted Harry Potter's blood. I wanted the blood of the one who had stripped me of powen thirteen years ago... for lingering protection his mother once gave him whould then reside in my veins too...."

Harry protection was love

and his protection is now running through Voldy's veins

I think in the end he has to love Harry enough to get rid of the Horcruxes and get

rid of the last bit.....

Himself

That just wouldn't be fair to us! LV cannot commit suicide! This is a battle between good and evil and good must win.

I find a problem with the theory. If LV loved Harry, then why would he have to kill himself? If he learns to love then he won't be evil anymore?

Voldemort will never love. His soul is too torn and tattered to even feel anything close ever again. This is why the protection is so strong, and this is what makes Harry so extraordinary. He's been through just as much, if not more than Voldemort, and can still love.

Yes, I agree. I also agree with Breanna, I'd feel cheated!

I guess it's a posiblility that Voldemort *could* realize the wrongs of his past and then kill himself, but I don't see it happening, if not for love, because he's too vain to think he's done anything wrong. If Voldemort turned "good" at the last minute, it would totaly undermine Harry's suffering and Dumbledore's death. I agree with aSiNx3, he's too far gone.

However, I could see the love that is now running through Voldemort's veins consuming him, slowly, from the inside. I think it's possible that this may weaken him, giving Harry a bit of an advantage.

He may not kill himself, but he may (because of the "love flowing through his veins") finally realize that what he's been doing is wrong and, through remorse, allow himself to be killed.

I, personally, don't think it'll go that way, but I'm trying to remain in the spirit of the topic.

Since I believe Harry won't be able to do an effective AK spell he will have to find another way to kill Voldemort. What if Harry learned how to possess him, the love from within Harry would be within Voldemort and it would destroy him because he can not handle love. It could happen when someone, say snape, was fighting LV and Harry caught him off guard after he had destroyed the horcruxes. Just a thought i had.

I agree with everyone before me who said this: I don't think Harry will be able to Avada LV. It's just not in his nature. Some people say that Ginny or Hermione or Ron is going to do a Lily and protect him, but that would be a highly dissapointing and not to mention creativy-lacking ending. I quite like the idea of Harry Expelliarmusing (sp?) LV into the veil, but I don't think that that will happen. The idea of someone else killing Harry just wouldn't fit right. I mean, what would the point of the series be if in the end, some other character finished of LV? After all the reflecting and battling Harry has done, it wouldn't be fair not to let him finish LV off. So basically, I have no clue how Harry is going to defeat LV. I just hope it's something good.

There are other ways to destroy a man other than killing him. Dumbledore dropped hints of that in OotP and HBP. I don't think Harry is meant to actually kill Voldemort but bring about his destruction in a different way. I think that's why JKR has Snape running interference with Harry in HBP by blocking his spells. Not just to save his hide but to keep Harry pure at heart.

I really like this idea for how LV dies. What if by opening the love room in the DoM, Harry learns about the magic which Lily used to save his life. Then while facing LV, he sacrifices himself to save one of the friends he loves. When Lily sacrificed herself, LV still had horcruxes and could not die. But what if Harry had already destroyed all them, then love in would prevail in his sacrifice and LV would die. The only part i don't like about this is it's one of the scenarios where both harry and LV die...i'll have to think of another way to make this work.

[quote name='Joekoolest' date='Jul 26 2006, 07:22 PM' post='895302']
[quote name='evelora lintly' post='895014' date='Jul 26 2006, 02:43 PM']

If anyone but Harry kills Voldemort the entire series will be a sham. I will accept no other way. You cant build up the main character with facing voldemort a bunch of times, the prophecy, the chosen one talk, and then not have him finsih the job. It will not end like that.
[/quote]


To paraphrase Dumbledore, you don't want to put too much store in the prophecy.

i agree with the people above. I'd honestly feel really cheated if that's what happend. However, I do think that the love flowing in his veins will come into play in the 7th book.

im sorry i didn't mean it to seem it as killing himself

i meant letting someone kill him

I really don't think Voldemort would let some one else kill him. To me, he's just so evil that nothing, not even the love from Harry's blood could change him. he'd want to remain around killing more people to prove he was the most powerful and if it got out that he let someone kill him then people would see him as weak.

Voldemorts biggest fear is death, he does not want to die.
He said in GOF that he has gone to extreams (horcruxes) to prevent himself from mortal death.
And he seems to have been evil right from the start, so I (IMO) dont think a drop of Harrys blood will make any difference in his feelings.
But this is just my oppinion.

yes but its not just a drop of blood all his blood is harry's and he has that protection

that harry had which was love so he has some type of love in him

I agree, sort of. I think that his body/fragmented soul will reject the love and possibly give Harry an opening to project more love into LV causing his down fall. I don't think it will be the killing curse that kills him. At the end of OOTP when LV posesses Harry he cannot bare to be in Harry's body b/c of Harry's love. So perhaps Harry will project his love into LV some how and kill him.

I do not think that LV will just quit and let Harry win, but I do think that his exposure to love will cause a bit of a crisis for him. He would now be able to relate to other people and make his quest for world domination (and killing Harry) more difficult. It may give Harry a chance to get ahead, but LV is too arrogant to stop now.

What I was actually thinking is that Harry doesn't have to die. If he tryes ti protect a friend he would just be so filled with love that it would be somehow unbearable to VD and he would be destroyd. Lily of course died trying to protect Harry but Harry doesn't necessarily have to. I hope!

Hi, this is my first message in the forum, since I just finished reading HbP. One of the first thing that popped to my mind was the constantly increasing reference to love as a key to defeat LV. I am not sure about the "physiological" thesis expressed here, but I had a simpler idea to share, which comes from another somehow parallel theme of the HbP. My impression is that something much simpler than we all expect could play an important role in the fight: what about a love potion?

Interesting idea, but who would he fall in love with? and how would that help matters? if he's such a violent person, won't he go to extremes to get to them?

and welcome to the forums danicang

I've just merged another similar topic into this one.

Narya
Leaky Mod

thanks for your welcome.

Just to clarify a bit my idea, I was not thinking at the "normal" effects of a love potion, but to the potentially devastating and poisoning effect that such a potion could have on LV forcing him to love, independently from who wold he fall in love with. In principle the force of love might destroy him.

I think that SPELL IT OUT is very close in theory.

The Room in the Department of Mysteries contains the most powerful magic in the world; Love. I think that Harry will destroy the horcruxes and the one that is left, which is Voldemort's corporeal body, will somehow be destroyed by Harry's design or help, in the Room that contains Love. All that would be left is Tom Riddle's soul-less body...the fate that is worse than Death for Voldemort. It would be as if a Dementor had sucked out his soul. Don't ask me how. I think that somehow all of this has to do with the demise of Voldemort, who is not human. Harry won't be casting the AV curse, not that it would work if he did. Harry gets to keep his pure soul and Voldemort gets the boot, leaving the human Tom Riddle behind.

It could work!

I can see it not being a duel of wands due to prior incantatum... but then again olivander has been kidnapped so voldermort could have a new one being made as he had dissapeared.

However it could be with an artifact or something... whether it b godrics sword or anything... its hard to guess but it will be harry doing it ... and he'll be destroying LV last.

Holy Smokes! I thought I was the only one who thought that Voldy could have kidnapped Ollivander for the purpose of making him a new wand. I've been toying around with that one for a while.