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Harry Potter discussion forum for movies, books, and more! - The Leaky Lounge > HP-Related Discussion: Diagon Alley > HP Book Discussion: Flourish and Blotts > Academic Analysis: Obscurus Books
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memyslfnI
There have been threads discussing the symbolic nature of numbers.  I would like to discuss the number 7.

Her it goes:

There are 7 stages of transforming lead into gold in alchemy. This link describes how the planets relate to thiose stages.
here

7 Metals - Lead, Tin, Iron, Copper, Mercury, Silver, Gold.

7 Stages of Alchemy - Calcination, Dissolution, Separation, Conjunction, Fermentation, Distillation, Coagulation.

7 Sacraments in Christianity - Baptism, Penance, Marriage, Communion, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Last Rites.

7 Colors - Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Violet, (and White which unites them into one whole)

Greece had seven sages, the Christian Middle Ages seven free arts (grammar, rhetoric, dialectics, arithmetic, geometry, music, astronomy)

7 Planets - Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn.

7 Personality Types - Solar, Lunar, Martial, Mercurial, Jovial, Venusian, Saturnine.

7 Days of Week - Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

As this relates to Harry Potter, -

There are 7 books- Why? Could Harry be evolving spiritually from Lead into Gold?

There are 7 Weasley Children?  What do each of them represent.  As they all are unique and have their own personalities.

There are 7 Tasks for the trio to get through to get to the socerer’s stone.
In the 6th task he gets to the table with 7 bottles.


Here is the poem:
QUOTE

Danger lies before you, while safety lies behind,
Two of us will help you, whichever you would find,
One among us seven will let you move ahead,
Another will transport the drinker back instead,
Two among our number hold only nettle wine,
Three of us are killers, waiting hidden in line.
Choose, unless you wish to stay here forevermore,
To help you in your choice, we give you these clues four:
First, however slyly the poison tries to hide
You will always find some on nettle wine's left side;
Second, different are those who stand at either end,
But if you would move onward, neither is your friend;
Third, as you see clearly, all are different size,
Neither dwarf nor giant holds death in their insides;
Fourth, the second left and the second on the right
Are twins once you taste them, though different at first sight.



There are7 locks to Mad Eye Moody’s trunk.

Are there more?  Can you relate the number 7 in the Harry Potter books to the symbolic nature of any of the above references.  This thread has the opportunity to combine alchemy, astrology, christian symbolism and more.  

So, GO for it!
Arianhrod
Here's another one: the 7 Deadly Sins (and I don't know exactly what they all are). I wonder if each sin can be related to a book?

Are there seven virtues? In Eastern tradition there are only 5, but what about in Christianity or other mythology?

Seven continents. Seven seas. Seven lords of the Amenti (lords of darkness and light).
CrumplehornedSnorckak
"Born as the 7th month dies..."  I'm sure there are more, but don't have my books with me now.
memyslfnI
In christian symbolism from ccu.org:
QUOTE
Seven (7) denotes spiritual perfection. It reflects the work of the Holy Spirit as the power of God as a hallmark does. It is the mark of life and divides the periods of reproduction in animal life. It is the number of rest and the cycle of rest in the jubilee. It is also the period of return to God in rest and return to His law and that is why the Law is read in the Sabbath year of the cycle.



It can be said the The books are about Harry's journey as the quest for spiritual perfection.   Each book as a task for his journey.

Heres more

QUOTE


By Andrew Harris 6 July 1999 ©
Last Modified Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:58:12 GMT
cp.gif Home Page Introduction Roman Numerals Hebrew Greek List of the Numbers Statistics Links
Introduction

In the Hebrew, seven ([b'v, - Sheh'-bah) is from a root word meaning to be complete or full. This can be clearly seen from the first time a varient of this word is used in the Bible.

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Genesis 2:1-3

God rested on the seventh day because his work of creation was complete, entire, perfect. Thus seven represents this perfect completeness and also it represents rest, as in the rest that is taken from work. It is from this same word that the Sabbath, the day of rest comes. But as well as this spiritual perfection, seven seems also to be used in another way in scripture.

memyslfnI
QUOTE(CrumplehornedSnorckak @ July 11 2005,11:10 am)
"Born as the 7th month dies..."  I'm sure there are more, but don't have my books with me now.


More about our 7th month.  For obvious reasons JKR has picked the 7th month as Harry's birth month

QUOTE
July was named for the Roman Emperor Julius Caesar, organizer of the
Julian Calendar in 46 BC, which remained in use until 1752, when the
Gregorian calendar was adopted.
The birthstone for July is the red ruby. It symbolizes love, and an
open heart. The ruby is the carrier of the red ray, and helps the
wearer to gain courage. Ruby is worn to improve circulation and the
richness of the blood. Associated with the sign Leo, it strengthens
the heart center leading to the will, and through compassion turns
personal love into love of humanity. The ruby is not limited to Leo,
but is supportive of all fire signs. Its contrasting properties are
associated with Shiva the destroyer, and correlated with the process
of purification.
firephoenix
Hey M. I 'm glad to see you started this thread.

"Lucky 7"

JKR said she made the Weasley children's hair red, because she didn't like that red heads are concidered unlucky.

QUOTE
Quote (CrumplehornedSnorckak @ July 11 2005,11:10 am)
"Born as the 7th month dies..."  I'm sure there are more, but don't have my books with me now.  


More about our 7th month.  For obvious reasons JKR has picked the 7th month as Harry's birth month

Quote  
July was named for the Roman Emperor Julius Caesar, organizer of the
Julian Calendar in 46 BC, which remained in use until 1752, when the
Gregorian calendar was adopted.
The birthstone for July is the red ruby. It symbolizes love, and an
open heart. The ruby is the carrier of the red ray, and helps the
wearer to gain courage. Ruby is worn to improve circulation and the
richness of the blood. Associated with the sign Leo, it strengthens
the heart center leading to the will, and through compassion turns
personal love into love of humanity. The ruby is not limited to Leo,
but is supportive of all fire signs. Its contrasting properties are
associated with Shiva the destroyer, and correlated with the process
of purification.
JKR said she believes in God and I think she might of based the book on a religion, so I think you got your answer here.

Let's try to find more 7s. It sounds like fun!
CrumplehornedSnorckak
Thanks memyslfn1.  I'm actually a July birthday, so I knew some of that.  Interesting that the ruby is associated with Leo, since most of the month falls under Cancer.  
There are seven floors in Hogwart's, or at least Gryffindor's dorm is in the seventh-floor tower.  
I'm bad at this game...can't ever think of more than one!
memyslfnI
It is interesting that the Slytherins (snake like near the ground) are located in the dungeons and Griffyndor Tower is close to heaven. Griffon (eagle, lion)  as far as what the symbolic meaning is for each of the floors, well thats N.E.W.T. level and I am not that astute!  

But to reach DD you need to ascend into his office so that is also exhaulted
Narya
Do the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World have any relevance?

1.  Great Pyramid of Giza
2.  Hanging Gardens of Babylon
3.  Statue of Zeus at Olympia
4.  Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
5.  Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
6.  Colossus of Rhodes
7.  Lighthouse of Alexandria

Diamond, I think you already mentioned the Emerald Tablet and the Pyramids of Giza; is the Tablet supposed to be concealed beneath them?
Arianhrod
QUOTE
Diamond, I think you already mentioned the Emerald Tablet and the Pyramids of Giza; is the Tablet supposed to be concealed beneath them?

Some say the Tablet is in the Pyramid itself, but most say it was buried in the Hall of Records under the Sphinx.

Here are some more!

Seven colours in the spectrum.
Seven notes in the musical scale.
Seven features on the human head.
Seven vowels in the Greek alphabet.
Seven principals in man.
The seventh son of the seventh son is said to have occult powers.
The seventh hour of birth determines whether a child will live or die.
The seventh day after birth the umbilical cord falls off.
Flowering plants of a pure strain have seven outside petals. The lotus is one such flower.
There are seven major chakras, or energy points, in the human body--one of them is in the middle of the forehead, right where Harry's scar is.
The ziggurat, or ladder to heaven, has seven steps.

Did someone mention this yet? That Harry was born in July--the 7th month?

And here's another one: from angelfire:

Seven is the number of magic, occult mysteries and clairvoyance. It is considered to be a sacred, mystic number in almost all societies including Hindu, Egyptian, Greek, Hebrew and Chinese. It is an indivisible number and therefore compared to God. On the seventh day of creation God rested, so all things must therefore rest under the influence of this number in order to reflect and contemplate on what has occurred as well as what is likely to transpire. It represents the last step before completion and is closely associated with man’s life span of three score and ten years.

The book of Genesis states that it took seven days to create the world.
In the book or revelations there were seven archangels and seven spirits of God sent forth unto all the earth.
There were seven generations from David to the coming of Christ.
memyslfnI
QUOTE
Seven notes in the musical scale.


What does DD say about music?

QUOTE
"Ah, music! A magic beyond all we do here!"


There is more to it than Homer simpsons famous redition!:
QUOTE

Homer Simpson's "Do Re Mi Beer"
Dough, the stuff that buys me beer
Ray, the guy who sells me beer
Me, the guy who's drinking beer
Far, a long way to go for beer
So, I'll have another beer
La, I'll have another beer
Tea, no thanks, I'm having beer
that will bring us back to

D'oh!



You can see that is is cyclical!  never ending!
It has a name (starts with a b will look for it because it is neat!)
Arianhrod
QUOTE
Quote  
Seven notes in the musical scale.  


What does DD say about music?

Quote  
"Ah, music! A magic beyond all we do here!"


I'm thinking Pythagoras here--the motto of the Pythagoreans is "All is Number." The Music of the Spheres, where the planets "talk" to each other harmoniously, is his doing. Seven planets?

He also invented Sacred Geometry: from Wikipedia:

Sacred geometry is geometry that is sacred to the observer or discoverer of the geometry. This meaning is sometimes described as being the language of the God of the religion of the people who discovered or used it.

Sacred geometry can be described as attributing a religious or cultural value to the graphical representation of the mathematical relationships and the design of the man-made objects that symbolize or represent these mathematical relationships.

The Golden Mean was often used in the design of Greek and Roman architecture. Examples of this use of sacred geometry can be found in:

Labyrinth
Mandala
Parthenon
Taijitu (Yin-Yang)
Tree of Life
A contemporary usage of the term describes a supposed re-discovered mathematical order to the intrinsic nature of the Universe that is represented in crop circles and in ancient architecture such as the Great Pyramid and Stonehenge.

Well, a few of the objects are familiar to us, anyway:

The Labyrinth (maze, Minotaur, the Third Task in GoF)
Yin-Yan (Harry and Tom)
TREE OF LIFE--The Alchemists!!!!!!!!
Mandala: Hindu origins but is also used in the Buddhist context. At its root it is the generic Sanskrit term for any plan, chart, or geometric pattern which represents the cosmos metaphysically or symbolically, a microcosm of the universe from the standpoint of man.

A mandala can be used during meditation as an object for focusing the eyes on, especially the center of the mandala. This accounts for the symmetrical geometric shapes which mandalas tend to have, tending to draw the attention of the eyes towards their center. (Wand power? To focus the energy required to cast a spell?)
memyslfnI
Thank you!  You triggered my mind!

It is called the Sacred Law of Seven, or Heptaparaparshinokh.   definition:
QUOTE
The first of these fundamental primordial sacred cosmic laws, namely the law of Heptaparaparshinokh, is formulated by cosmic Objective Science in the following words: The flow of forces follows a line that constantly deflects at specific intervals and unites again at its ends. According to this primordial sacred cosmic law, the line of the flow of forces has seven points of deflection or, as is otherwise said, seven 'centers of gravity,' and the distance between two consecutive points of deflection, or 'centers of gravity,' is called a 'stopinder' of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh.' The complete process of this sacred law, acting through everything newly arising and existing, is always made up of seven stopinders.  



more  

,
QUOTE
The seven fundamental tones of the octave express the law of seven. The addition to it of the Do of the next octave, that is to say, the crowning of the process, gives the eighth step.


what is the eighth step?

Harry has always had a clear starting point and ending point.  He always starts with the Dursleys But as a whole, There are seven books in the series or seven stopinders. They all will possibly end , as you have surmised, Diamond, with the stone.  If all of these ends with the eighth step what is the eighth step?

QUOTE


By Andrew Harris 2 March 1999 ©
Last Modified Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:58:36 GMT
cp.gif Home Page Introduction Roman Numerals Hebrew Greek List of the Numbers Statistics Links
Introduction

Eight is seven plus one, and is hence the start of a new order, the beginning of a new era. Eight thus represents regeneration and resurrection. When the flood washed the earth clean, in a type of baptism, eight people were saved in the ark.
Arianhrod
QUOTE
Eight is seven plus one, and is hence the start of a new order, the beginning of a new era. Eight thus represents regeneration and resurrection. When the flood washed the earth clean, in a type of baptism, eight people were saved in the ark.


From OOTP: "And at the solstice will come a new..."

Paracelsus made several prophecies, one of which involved a New World Order "at the millennium", when, apparently, Alchemy would once again be a favored science. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it! I posted this in another thread a while back:

QUOTE
'Many prophecies there are of times to come,and those days are even said to be at hand, when the Fourth Monarchy, which is the Intellectual reign of Truth and Peace, shall predominate, when the Mother of Sciences will come forth, and greater things be discovered than have been hitherto in the past monarchies of the world. But we do not tarry about these matters; the Revelation of all things is always at hand for him who knows how to investigate, and the rest will be always far behind. If truly there be minds prepared, or if the great era approaches more rapidly than is given us yet even in faith to foresee (for notwithstanding so many signs that are appearing, all signal rumours of a coming change, yet they are fewer and far between and more rare yearly which indicate the progression of Truth); but if, we say, a better age is approaching, which at some period of time must come, when abundance of all things by an equitable distribution of all, shall help to break down the competitive barrier of society, and introduce a co-operative alliance among mankind, then this incentive to inquiry may not be inopportunely offered in the self-discovery of truth.'

Curiously enough Paracelsus also connects the establishment of the 'Fourth Monarchy' or Millennium with a rediscovery of Alchemy and a universal knowledge of the secret of transmutation of metals.

'Then will the Old Art flourish, and no heed be given to the New.
'Then shall the Pearl so long lost be found by an humble one, and will be set, as a jewel, in gold."

He also said something that LV should keep in mind:  'Truth is the power to understand if you wish the world to spin in the palm of your hand.'

Solstices again. Trelawney said something about the winter solstice, didn't she? But what I find most interesting is that, as most people here know, Voldemort's wand is made of yew, which is associated with the winter solstice, regeneration and longevity (in a nutshell).

Is there a connection? I don't know, but it'll be fun to speculate.
Narya
Great research! clap.gif Don't know if these fit anywhere, but:

According to the Christian clergy of old, a contract with the devil had to contain seven paragraphs, was concluded for seven years and signed by the contractor seven times.  All the magical drinks prepared with the help of the enemy of man consisted of seven herbs.

From: this site

Could this be anything to do with LV’s rebirthing potion?  I just wondered if there's any connection with what LV did to try and achieve immortality - taking blood from Harry, his sworn enemy?  Might he also have "sold his soul" to someone all powerful for the promise of living forever?  

Also, in Galician folklore, the seventh son will be a werewolf. In other folklores, after six daughters, the seventh child is to be a son and a werewolf. In other European folklores, the seventh son of a seventh son will be a vampire.

Curious - Ginny Weasley is the Weasleys' seventh child, isn’t she?  

Seven is also the usual number for a witches’ coven!
Pumpkin_juice
maybe JKR was jsut a big mickey mantle fan.... ::ducks back under the hydrangia bush::
memyslfnI
QUOTE
Could this be anything to do with LV’s rebirthing potion?  I just wondered if there's any connection with what LV did to try and achieve immortality - taking blood from Harry, his sworn enemy?  Might he also have "sold his soul" to someone all powerful for the promise of living forever?  


Could be!  I did try to open the link and it said "not found"  but I think you are definately on the right path!  The path to immortality I think was left in the chamber and Tom stumbled on it. I think part of his pact was killing the inhabitants of the Riddle House 50 years ago.  But because the Basilisk was released and killed Myrtle, he had to seal the chamber before he could learn the rest of the information so he has "not quite" gotten it down.
Narya
Another minor detail just occurred to me as I'm rushing out the door to work:  Flitwick's office is on the seventh floor at Hogwarts.  

Could Professor literally be a lucky charm to Harry?  Since Lily's wand was excellent for charm work, she could have studied really hard with him and learnt that if the situation ever arose, one person's sacrifice for another is a powerful counter-charm?

eta:  Trying to link to a website never works for me (grrrr) so I've given up the attempt and edited to add in the following which may be interesting:

QUOTE
it is also true that the Buddhists took from the Aryans of India, not from Egypt, their idea of seven stages of progressive development of the disembodied soul ...

There are Seven Ages of Man.  

The Seven Muses: History, Poetry, Comedy, Tragedy, Music, Dance and Astronomy.

The Seven Medieval Arts: Grammar, Rhetoric, Logic, Music, Arithmetic, Geometry, and Astronomy - which are also called the Seven Liberal Arts because they are intended to liberate us from a mundane life.

In many societies every seventh year is a "Year of Release". It is the statute of limitations for various crimes and debts, slaves are set free after seven years, planted fields are allowed to rest, etc.

In Greek Mythology, seven is the symbol of the Virgin. It is not possible to construct a perfect heptagon or to divide the circle into seven equal portions using only simple geometer's tools. Hence, seven is indivisible, unconquerable, and virginal.


Now I just need to try and make some sense out of it.   :headdesk:

I thought about LV's soul staying this side of the Veil when I read about the disembodied soul.  

The "year of release" is interesting - could this mean that LV will be defeated in Harry's seventh year?   smile.gif
memyslfnI
Well, as per TOm Riddle "seven is the most magical of numvers"  WHy.  We now have 7 Horcruxes.  What does everyone think?

more on seven
QUOTE
7 From earliest times this number was associated with celestial beings and spiritual forces; seven days in a week, the seven known planets (including the sun and the moon); the 7 evil spirits, the seven levels of a ziggurat (astral tower built by the Babylonians--the most famous being the Tower of Babel); according to St. Augustine, seven symbolized the perfection of God--he created the world and rested on the seventh day; Christian life is ordered by seven: seven capital sins, seven virtues, seven sacraments.
Arianhrod
M, I thought of you the second I read that. Another 7. Great call on that one! I'm wondering what relationship that has to the overall story. Is it part of the 7 stages of Alchemy (now there's a thought...) or what? The 7 steps to spiritual perfection? If I'm right and Harry makes an 8th Horcrux, what happens then? If there are 7 Horcrux, then it is 7 tasks to destroy them all, 2 of which have already been accomplished (the diary and the ring).
memyslfnI
QUOTE
Why seven? A brief overview of the history. The number seven was considered sacred not only by all the cultured nations of antiquity and the East, but was held in the greatest reverence even by the later nations of the West. The astronomical origin of this number is established beyond any doubt. Man, feeling himself time out of mind dependent upon the heavenly powers, ever and everywhere made earth subject to heaven. The largest and brightest of the luminaries thus became in his sight the most important and highest of powers; such were the planets which the whole antiquity numbered as seven.

In course of time these were transformed into seven deities. The Egyptians had seven original and higher gods; the Phœnicians seven kabiris; the Persians, seven sacred horses of Mithra; the Parsees, seven angels opposed by seven demons, and seven celestial abodes paralleled by seven lower regions. To represent the more clearly this idea in its concrete form, the seven gods were often represented as one seven-headed deity. The whole heaven was subjected to the seven planets; hence, in nearly all the religious systems we find seven heavens.

Other seven facts and uses:

   
   * Did you know that the Seven Senses include animation, feeling, speech, taste, sight, hearing and smelling? A current belief about the number seven is that if you include it in the price of a product you are selling (especially over the Internet), you will sell more. It is truly a magic number in that sense, because it works.

Have you ever heard of Seventh Son of a Seventh Son? Seven is the most mystical and magical of numbers, and in the lore of folk magic, the seventh son of a seventh son is believed to be born with formidable magical and healing powers: he is clairvoyant, capable of casting powerful spells, and possesses the ability to heal by a laying on of hands. This reminded me of a rather unusual story called The Seventh Father of the House. A folktale from Norway, this story tells of a traveler who asks permission to stay the night and is directed to a series of fathers until he finds the oldest and seventh ("the true father of the house"). For some reason, this has always been an unsettling story for me, but one I remember. You can find a copy of it included in Jane Yolen's Favorite Folktales from around the World.

Additional thoughts about numbers and storytelling. As I was searching for stories that included seven in the title, or seven objects and/or characters within the story, I was struck with how many stories and story titles include a number. Of course, there are a huge number with "three" and there are a range of stories with "twelve," "six," "four," and "two."  Why Don't We Find Stories with Fives or Eights?


what about the 7th daughter?  Is Ginny besides being awfully good at hexes, more magical than meets the eye?
Briar910
Man, you guys were dead on about the number 7.  And that was before HBP came out.  Well done.
firephoenix
M - Wow! I used to study seventh daughters. It was along time ago, so I'm a bit rusty, but I do know the seventh daughter is believed to carry all powers. The powers, some come naturely and some are just waiting to be activated. They would also be 100% strong. It is believed that a "witch" with full powers (read minds, move things..ect.) daughters will each have a special power, but it is not until the seventh is born that full powers will be recieved again. In away Ginny got a double wammy, because her birth ranck is 7th too. Also JKR made it clear that girls are rare in the Weasely line. Do you think Ginny will have a more prominent in the 7th book then we were lead to believe?
Eeyore
I hope she will. This is a great thread. I saw it but hadn't had time to check it out. I've always made the connection of the number seven to seven being the perfect number because it's the divine number. Six is imperfect and represents man, as it falls one short of seven.

Did anyone mention seven days of the week?

After day camp is over, I want to look back at some things on the Maya--they were very advanced with their calendar and with math, etc. I don't remember though, if there was anything to do with the number seven.
memyslfnI
There is the 7 chakras I just learned about looking up things for another thread
QUOTE
The first chakra is located at the base of the spine and is associated with red. It is the chakra that governs our physical existence, our bodies and our health.

The second chakra is located in the area of the womb (or thereabouts for men) and is associated with the color orange. This chakra governs creativity, and some say emotion. (I associate emotion with the heart chakra).

The third chakra is located at the solar plexus and is associated with the color gold (yellow). It is associated with the will or desire.

The fourth chakra (the middle chakra in the chain of seven) is the heart chakra and is associated with the color green, and also the color rose, which is the "color of love." This chakra is connected with emotion and human love.

The fifth chakra is located at the throat and is a bright blue. It governs communication and personal magnetism. It is the chakra that most influences intercommunication and our "personas." It is also the link between emotion and thought.

The sixth chakra is located at the third eye (mid-forehead) and is indigo (deep purply/blue). This chakra is associated with thought (though some say the third chakra governs thought) and with vision, particularly psychic vision. It is also the chakra of spiritual love and connection.

The seventh chakra is at the crown of the head, and is violet fading to white further away from the body. This chakra is our connection to our "higher selves" and to the "divine." It is associated with wisdom and integration of our eternal selves with our current physical selves. It is like our umbilical cord to "God."

 Could the Horcruxes relate to the 7 chakras?  Interesting that when LV was going to kill Harry to make the 6th horcrux he was foiled by love and Harry is left with a scar on his forhead (see 6th chakra)
kneazle4
This might have been mentioned already-- I have to go, but will read these later, very interesting!! There are seven players to a side in quidditch.
misty-fug
I was thinking about the Ginny being the seventh CHILD, not daughter, she's the first daughter, last week.  and I wondered if Molly was a 7th?  

Someone mentioned Flintwicks office on the 7th floor, isn't the Griffindore tower on the 7th floor too?  and the Room of Requirement?
misty-fug
I was thinking about the Ginny being the seventh CHILD, not daughter, she's the first daughter, last week.  and I wondered if Molly was a 7th?
misty-fug
Ok, y'all have come up with about 7 times 7 7's  I tried to make a list but could have left some out from all the quotes  I tried to condense too.

-There are 7 stages of transforming lead into gold in alchemy.
-7 Metals - Lead, Tin, Iron, Copper, Mercury, Silver, Gold.
-7 Stages of Alchemy - Calcination, Dissolution, Separation, Conjunction, Fermentation, Distillation, Coagulation.
-7 Sacraments in Christianity - Baptism, Penance, Marriage, Communion, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Last Rites.
-7 Colors - Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Violet, (and White which unites them into one whole)
-Greece had seven sages, the Christian Middle Ages seven free arts (grammar, rhetoric, dialectics, arithmetic, geometry, music, astronomy)
-7 Planets - Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn.
-7 Personality Types - Solar, Lunar, Martial, Mercurial, Jovial, Venusian, Saturnine.
-7 Days of Week - Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
-7 Deadly Sins
-Are there seven virtues? In Eastern tradition there are only 5, but what about in Christianity or other mythology?
-
Seven continents.
-Seven seas.
-Seven lords of the Amenti (lords of darkness and light).
-Seven (7) denotes spiritual perfection. (christian symbolism)
-In the Hebrew, seven ([b'v, - Sheh'-bah) is from a root word meaning to be complete or full.
-"Lucky 7"
-Seven Wonders of the Ancient World
-Seven colours in the spectrum.
-Seven notes in the musical scale.
-Seven features on the human head.
-Seven vowels in the Greek alphabet.
-Seven principals in man.
-The seventh son of the seventh son is said to have occult powers.
-The seventh hour of birth determines whether a child will live or die. (never heard this)
-The seventh day after birth the umbilical cord falls off. (not true,  different for every child [I have three none fell off on seventh day])
-Flowering plants of a pure strain have seven outside petals. -The lotus is one such flower.
-There are seven major chakras, or energy points, in the human body--one of them is in the middle of the forehead, right where Harry's scar is.
-Seven is the number of magic, occult mysteries and clairvoyance.
- seven days to create the world.(genesis)
-In the book or revelations there were seven archangels and seven spirits of God sent forth unto all the earth.
-There were seven generations from David to the coming of Christ.
-Sacred Law of Seven, or Heptaparaparshinokh.
-According to the Christian clergy of old, a contract with the devil had to contain seven paragraphs, was concluded for seven years and signed by the contractor seven times.  All the magical drinks prepared with the help of the enemy of man consisted of seven herbs.
-Galician folklore, the seventh son will be a werewolf. In other folklores, after six daughters, the seventh child is to be a son and a werewolf. In other European folklores, the seventh son of a seventh son will be a vampire.
-Seven is also the usual number for a witches’ coven!
-Buddhists, seven stages of progressive development of the disembodied soul ...
-There are Seven Ages of Man.
-The Seven Medieval Arts: Grammar, Rhetoric, Logic, Music, Arithmetic, Geometry, and Astronomy - which are also called the Seven Liberal Arts because they are intended to liberate us from a mundane life.
-In many societies every seventh year is a "Year of Release". It is the statute of limitations for various crimes and debts, slaves are set free after seven years, planted fields are allowed to rest, etc.
-In Greek Mythology, seven is the symbol of the Virgin. It is not possible to construct a perfect heptagon or to divide the circle into seven equal portions using only simple geometer's tools. Hence, seven is indivisible, unconquerable, and virginal.
-The ziggurat, or ladder to heaven, has seven steps.


As this relates to Harry Potter, -

-There are 7 books- Why? Could Harry be evolving spiritually from Lead into Gold?
There are 7 Weasley Children?  What do each of them represent.  -As they all are unique and have their own personalities.
-There are 7 Tasks for the trio to get through to get to the socerer’s stone.
-In the 6th task he gets to the table with 7 bottles.
-There are7 locks to Mad Eye Moody’s trunk.
-"Born as the 7th month dies..."
-There are seven floors in Hogwart's
-Gryffindor's dorm is in the seventh-floor tower.
-Flitwick's office is on the seventh floor at Hogwarts.
- 7 Horcruxes.
- seven players to a side in quidditch.
misty-fug
Oh, and as to the 7 books question, there are 7 books because in england they go to 7 years of bording school . (as JKR did herself) after primary school.  which equals 12 years like in U.S. or 14 if you count preschool and kindergarten which is 7 times 2. doo^doo, doo^doo.
Sseran
Just want to say thanks to everyone for doing my work for me. Since my birthday is 7373 I've always been interested in these numbers. If you're on the lookout they seem to pop up everywhere in your life.
Take as an example that the release date of HBP was in July (seventh month), 2005: 2+5=7.
Witherwings
Ooh, I just had a chance to read this whole thing and I see you did mention the seven chakras that I brought up in the Astrology topic, memyselfandi.

Once again I would venture to guess that JK won't use chakras in detail in any way, but vaguely it could make sense that Voldemort is going against nature, splitting his chakras so to speak rather than aligning them.

PS I am a seventh month born person with a seven in numerology name, not that that has any relevence to HP!  :wink:  The name "Harry" is a seven numerologically as well, but that's probably just a coincidence.
ragged_claws
I just wanted to say that when reading the HBP the only outside thought that I had was that this particular thread was going to take off. Well done memyslfnI for such an astute observation and ultimately a prediction with raising the question on "7". I now need to re-read this thread and ponder the current 6 books to ook for parallels and examples. I have seen a few people theorise that 1 of the 7 Horcruxes may feature in each of the books, must wade through the canon and see.
memyslfnI
more on the 7th daughter etc from JKR in her interview by ES/MA
QUOTE
MA: Does she have a larger importance; the Tom Riddle stufff, being the seventh girl —

JKR: The backstory with Ginny was, she was the first girl to arrive in the Weasley family in generations, but there's that old tradition of the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter and a seventh son of a seventh son, so that's why she's the seventh, because she is a gifted witch.  I think you get hints of that, because she does some pretty impressive stuff here and there, and you'll see that again.

Eeyore
And does anyone else think that Ginny will still be there for Harry, even though he has said that they have to break up?  I just can't see our determined little Ginny meekly saying, well, ok, then. It may take a while, but Harry needs to realize that Voldemort and the DEs are already aware that the whole Weasley family is very close to Harry, and thus are already possible targets.

I found it very interesting that JKR made the mention of the 7th daughter of a 7th daughter--one more for all our discussions.
Arianhrod
QUOTE
And does anyone else think that Ginny will still be there for Harry, even though he has said that they have to break up?

Yes, I do. She'll still be a major source of comfort for him, and she's a powerful witch. I think that all of his friends will help him track down the Horcruxes, and I think that includes Neville and Luna. They were the only ones of all the DA members to stay true to him and come when Hermione called them.
firephoenix
I think the ending of the HBP was ment to throw us. H/HR/R leaveing Hogwarts and N/L/G/hagrid staying. This doesn't add up and someone (harry) is going to have to bend. I've had my fill of Harry and Ginny snogging, but I would like to see her help fight the good fight.

I really like the chakras, it just seems to fit.
memyslfnI
I'm in agreement there folks!  I can't imagine the books without Neville/Luna and Ginny !
Eeyore
No, and the other thing that I thought of is that Hogwarts will either be open or not--it doesn't matter--but Harry will have to return there to search for one of the Horcruxes. I would think that if it were Gryffindor's sword, Dumbledore would have destroyed it by now, but there might be some other relic there.

And let's see--back to the number 7--if it is Harry, Hermione, Ron, Neville, Luna, and Ginny, that is six. Is there a 7th person to join in? Possbily Hagrid? Or will the 7th be the return of Fawkes, who I think JKR has said is coming back. Or even Snape, helping them without their knowledge? (I know, I know, that's really going out on a limb, isn't it. But maybe my wild speculation will trigger a more rational thought by someone else.  :wink: )
Arianhrod
QUOTE
Or even Snape, helping them without their knowledge? (I know, I know, that's really going out on a limb, isn't it. But maybe my wild speculation will trigger a more rational thought by someone else.   )

If that was all part of DD's (I almost said Gandalf; I've got Return of the King in) Master Plan, then that would make sense. He'd still need someone close to LV. But the problem is that no one trusts him anymore. Harry will probably kill him first and ask questions later.

What about Draco? Talk about long shots...

QUOTE
I've had my fill of Harry and Ginny snogging, but I would like to see her help fight the good fight.

Oh, I agree with that 100%! Romance is great and all, and it's a big part of a 16 year old's life, but let's get down to business already...they can snog all they want after Harry defeats LV!

QUOTE
I would think that if it were Gryffindor's sword, Dumbledore would have destroyed it by now, but there might be some other relic there.

Someone (it was either M or firephoenix) pointed out about the scabbard being more powerful than the sword itself. At least Excalibur's was--it could heal, or keep wounds from getting worse.
Eeyore
So there you go--is the scabbard there with the sword? I don't remember mention of it. The other thing I wondered when I was skimming through was Harry going over the known Horcruxes, and he keeps saying the snake. Well, is it really Nagini, or is it some snake symbol, either something that Slytherin left at Hogwarts (back to the Chamber of Secrets plural thing) or something at the Gaunt house. Or is it something that has made its way to the Malfoy's mansion?
firephoenix
I know I will be argueing the 7 Horcruces until the 7th book comes out. But the 7 companions is something I never thought about. My gut feeling is Hagrid, but how offten does Harry need to really see him? I thought, because DD was the head of the White stage there would be more of him in the 6th book then there was. Maybe ithe 7th companion will be someone we will think will ture on Harry and then the true traitor will be someone we didn't expect....Neville???
Eeyore
Mmmm, I just can't see Neville as a traitor--it doesn't seem at all to fit with his character. Especially given what happened to his parents. If he were to betray Harry in any way, I don't think that it would be intentional--perhaps he might say something or do something, thinking that he is helping.  No, on second thought, I just don't think so.

But I am curious who else will join Harry. An interesting twist would be someone from Slytherin--it just seems that they have to be part of the solution of tracking down Voldemort to bring about the unity that was mentioned in HP5 and 6.  Horace Slughorn, perhaps?  I'm still not sure I trust him, though--he just seems too enamoured with the rich and famous to be entirely trustworthy.
firephoenix
I, also don't think Neville would do it on purpose, but JKR mentioned twice in HBP that Neville grandma is putting alot of pressure on Neville and wishes Harry was her Grandson. Plus the toad is evil. It makes me sad, but I beginning to think he may. I really hope your wrong about Slughorn. I don't want him back.

How about Hedwig? She was kept quite in the HBP.
DylanSeuss
Lets not forget the Seven Samurai... ok sorry...
memyslfnI
More on the number 7

QUOTE
Wenlock, Bridget (1202 - 1285)
Famous Arithmancer who discovered the magical properties of the number seven (fw22).


Agrippa (the only Chocolate frog Card Ron doesn't have) wrote this famous work anout the scale of numbers.  I am not going to quote it here as it is WAY too long.  However I will put the link here Occult Philosopy by Cornelius Aggripa

Scroll down to the section that pertains to seven.  (maybe page 13)  Interesting about it uniting the mind soul and body!
memyslfnI
Check out the new wizard of the month!  If you do not want to go to the link, look at the last post above!!!!
Arianhrod
I think JKR is watching us...she seems to know just what we're discussing sometimes!
Solana
Seven A mystic or sacred number. It is composed of four and three, which, among the Pythagoreans, were, and from time immemorial have been, accounted lucky numbers. Among the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other ancient peoples, there were seven sacred planets. The Hebrew verb for "to swear" means literally to come under the influence of seven things; thus, seven ewe lambs figure in the oath between Abraham and Abimelech at Beersheba (Gen. 21:28); and Herodotus describes an Arabian oath in which seven stones are smeared with blood. There are seven days in Creation, seven days in the week, seven graces, seven deadly sins, seven divisions in the Lord's Prayer, and seven ages in the life of man; climacteric years are seven and nine with their multiples by odd numbers; and the seventh son of a seventh son was held noble. Among the Hebrews, every seventh year was sabbatical, and seven times seven years was the jubilee. The three great Jewish feasts lasted seven days; and between the first and second were seven weeks. Levitical purifications lasted seven days; Balaam would have seven alters, and sacrificed on them seven bullocks and seven rams; Naaman was commanded to dip seven times in Jordan; Elijah sent his servant seven times to look out for rain; ten times seven Israelites went to Egypt, the exile lasted the same number of years, and there were ten times seven elders. Pharaoh in his dream saw seven years for each of his wives; seven priests with seven trumpets marched round Jericho once every day, but seven times on the seventh day. Samson's wedding feast lasted seven days; on the seventh he told his bride the riddle, he was bound with seven withes [sic], and seven locks of his hair were cut off. Nebuchadnezzar was a beast for seven years. In the Apocalypse, there are seven churches of Asia, seven candlesticks, seven stars, seven trumpets, seven spirits before the throne of God, seven horns, seven vials, seven plagues, a seven-headed monster, and the Lamb with seven eyes. The old astrologers and alchemists recognized seven so-called planets. According to the Muslims, there are seven heavens. Benét's Reader's Encyclopedia (Siepmann, 1987)
Solana
QUOTE(memyslfnI @ July 31 2005,11:46 pm)
Check out the new wizard of the month!  If you do not want to go to the link, look at the last post above!!!!


Bridget Wenlock
(1202 – 1285)
Famous Arithmancer. First to establish the magical properties of the number seven


I think that she want us to pay attention to this matter, dont you agree?
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