i'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but i wish that molly hadnt called bellatrix a bitch

i am probably much more serious than many on requiring my children not to use bad language and although for bellatrix, this was probably a highly appropriate term!!, i still would hesitate in wishing my preteenage children to see such an otherwise excellent role model as mrs weasly using poor language

am i being overly sensitive? how do others feel?

I see where you are coming from
by I have to disagree with you

Her saying it was almost like a release for her. Her daughter was being attacked and almost killed


But ya I would be worried if there were words like that on every page.

No, you aren't being oversensitive. When I first read that line I cheered. I thought it was totally appropriate at the time. Later on I thought about the younger kids that might read the story and like you I wish she hadn't said it. My daughter read these stories to my grandson, and I'll bet she changed that word.

Actually, in retrospect I'm surprised the American editor left it in. They had insisted on no swear words, which is why you read things like: Ron used a word that made Hermione say "Ron." And things like that avoiding the actual word.

What I have always told my children (13 and 10) is that language is a powerful tool when used appropriately. Even bad language has its place. There are some situations in life where it is not only justified, but irreplaceable. There are some situations where bad language is the only choice to fully express an emotion, and to censor it cheapens the response. That's not to say I let my kids run around using expletives to their heart's content. There are some people in this world however who not only warrant such harsh language, but almost require it to fully express a feeling about them. Some people deserve the expressed power that only a vulgar word can convey. A perfect example of using the power of a crude word without over using crude words is this one with Molly. The fact that no other character in the novels used such a word until that instance, gave Molly and that sentence incredible power to convey the raw emotion of the circumstance.

I have no problem whatsoever allowing my children to read "bad" words in good literature. The complexities of language, behavior and emotion are wonderful things. So long as children know how to use language appropriately, and to its fullest extent, I also have no problem with them using such words. I expect my children's behavior to be beyond reproach. Part of that means knowing when and how to use what language.

That being said, I am not you. Are you over reacting? No. Because every parent must choose what they think is best for their children. They know better than anyone (or should) what their children's maturity level is and what they can handle. It would be very presumptious of anyone to tell you what they think is appropriate for your own kids.

I have two thoughts on this...first, that what bothers me about Molly calling Bellatrix a 'bitch' is more the sexist connotation it has, than its expression as a swear word - but I agree with jacobmarley for the most part in his reply. However, I see the word 'bitch' in much the same way I view derogatory racial epithets or words that demean one's sexual orientation. And of course what is offensive to a person is highly individual. I have to say though, that I think the books matured as the children in the books matured. I think that Rowling is writing in a more mature style and to a more mature reader in the later books, and it seems somewhat unrealistic to represent intense anger without an occasional swear word by some character or another.

The other thing that occurs me is that I think it is perhaps much less disturbing to me that Molly uses 'bitch' as it is that she murders Bellatrix. Not that I don't think that it is justified and appropriate in the context of the story....but of the two acts, I feel that the murder should be more troublesome morally than the swearing is.

I agree, jacobmarley.

I didn't mind Molly's use of the word so much because it was a one time use of the word. In fact, I think when we read it the first time out loud, my husband changed it to "witch." Of course, my daughter has since poured over the book, so I imagine she has seen it. The kids know I don't want them using that sort of language. But they do read it and hear it in the world; I am glad it is relatively rare in the Potter books.

Chloe, I know other people who have had this reaction to Molly killing Bellatrix, but i'd like you to respond to it for me as I'm a bit confused. See, to me Molly did not "murder" Bellatrix at all. She was defending her child and others. I think there is a distinct difference between self defense (or defense of another) and murder, but perhaps you can tell me where you are having a problem. As a bit of background for you, I am morally opposed to the death penalty. I do not have a problem however with someone using deadly force to protect themselves. Molly using the word "bitch" drove home the point of just how serious a situation this was, and just how far Bellatrix had gone. Molly's child was in danger, one was dead, and the time for kid gloves was far gone. I think the language and the action drove home the point. And although Molly was one of the good guys, it was not unexpected to see her behaving with a ferocious, protective fury. That sort of behavior was foreshadowed quite a bit I think where she was concerned.

I think it's also interesting that the only other time that word was used in the HP books, it was used by a somewhat less savory character, but the word still had power. Not for the speaker, but against her. "You see it all the time with dogs. If there's something wrong with the bitch, there'll be something wrong with the pup-" The power of the word illicited a violent reaction in Harry. When Marge said it, she was using it with its literal meaning, but with definite allusions to Lily. I do wonder if people have as strong a reaction to the word coming from Marge though. Did they edit it to their children back in PoA? Perhaps it was OK for people to hear Marge say it because she was a bad person using a bad word.

I agree with jacobmarley.I hear cuss words all the time of course .I mean i know even if i was younger i think my parents wouldnt care much because they know im not going to go blabbling bitch everywhere.They know i can handle it and i think most kids should probaley be able to handle it too.I absoultley loved that part though i think if my children were in a life threating situation i might slip a cuzz word.I dont know your kids so i dont really think your being overly sensitieve(maybe a little though.)

Excellent catch JacobMarley ! I had forgotten all about Marge using that word. It made me as angry as Harry when I read it. Perhaps it was the allusion to Lily that did it, but I think it was the whole thing of Marge talking that way in front of Harry without any thought about his feelings.

Coming to the main question, Molly using the word didn't bother me so much. I was all "Go Molly !" What do you expect from any mother who has just seen her son's dead body and seen her only daughter almost killed in front of her eyes ? I would have used something much stronger if I had been in her place.

After all, profanity exists in our world and Jo did depict reality relating to death, relationships, and prejudice in her books. So why not some strong language ? It wasn't as if it was too bad - children nowadays hear such things all the time. Mind you, I'm not saying children should use such words often, but just that they must know what goes on in the real world without getting carried away by anything.

i think it was quite interesting that the only person who will say a "bad" word, and not things like merlin's pants, is Molly Weasley, the good-natured housewive who cooks well and has raised 7 children.

it shows that nobody's perfect, and that nobody should be, especially in such intense and emotional moments: her son has just been killed by a death eater, her whole family is being attacked, her only daughter nearly killed, and she sould remain maintained and polite??

"excuse me, Mrs Lestrange, but i would like it if you didn't kill one of my children, please."

come on!

I though that was one of the most immense scene Molly had in the series. Usually she's the lovey mommy ranting at the twins, but seriously, this scene was great.

I see your point where you're coming from, but honestly, do you think you can coddle your kids their whole life. As warming it is to have a coddle and safe childhood, they're going to have to leave their safety zone, and it's best if they're gradually exposed to it rather than being his with it all at one when they reach uni or something like that. Swearing is quite common in young kids (especially chavs, and no place in the world is safe from chavs anymore... kiddin')

That wold has only been used once in the whole book rather than casually being thrown around so to be honest I don't really mind it. I was just just surprised... It totally fits...


Totally.
LMAO!

i find it odd that we all woried about molly saying bitch when both ron and abaforth both said something i concider worse.

as is said, when some one tries to kill your kid you probably wouldnt care about all the preteen readers being exsposed to bad language

I agree, it makes it sound like Molly sees Bellatrix as a traitor to proper womanhood rather than as a horrible person, period.


A bit strange in the context of a series where almost all the female characters are witches, isn't it?


What would that be?

i dont have the exact quote but it went something like this:

"and thats twice we've saved your life tonight you two faced b*****d"

That was my thought also ... Molly calling Bellatrix a bitch in the heat of the moment in the middle of a battle is more 'acceptable' to me than when Ron called Draco a 'two-faced b******d' and punched him after they saved him from the Room of Requirement ... There was no real need for Ron to swear as there wasn't really the same 'acceptable' context as there was for Molly, yet it is Molly's swearing that is picked up, despite the fact what Ron said was worse IMHO...

The idea of "bad" words just isn't one I get. Words can have bad intentions, but like a wand -- it's how you use them.

I think it says a great deal that we essentially see no cursing (or when we do it's notied that someone cursed, but the word is not used) in the series, and then we see Molly say "bitch" -- The word is not used casually or, I think it's also important to note, as a means of humiliation against a female character. I think Molly's use of the word provides a good opportunity (just one of many in teh series -- if you consider all the content about bullying as regards Snape and also Luna) to speak to children about the power of words and how they shouldn't be casually slung around. They're not appropriate to everyday life, but these words exist and have meaning for a reason.

Certainly, your kids are going to hear them anyway. Theere's a lot to be said for an appropriate context and a discussion opportunity.

To jacobmarley....

I am basing my statement on the Netherlands interview that Rowling did just recently. The following was the statement by the interviewer and Rowling’s response:



She doesn’t specifically say that Molly used the Avada Kedavra, but I think that one can pretty much surmise that she did. I don’t think that killing was entirely necessary in defense of her child - knocking her unconscious would have done the trick.

Please don’t misunderstand my position, I am not arguing for condemnation of Molly for this at all. I myself feel that it was justified but I feel that of the two things that Molly does, the murder is probably more troublesome to me than the use of the word ‘bitch’. However, I personally try to avoid that word myself, not because I never swear, but because of the sexual slant with the word. I think that there is really no masculine equivalent to it. Of course ‘b------’ is similar but really this can be male or female. ‘Bitch’ is a derogatory term specifically used to demean a woman for being aggressive (and really, isn’t aggression admired in men for the most part within the bounds of the law?). I am reminded of the recent use of the term on NPR by some woman (at a Republican rally I believe) for Hillary Clinton. Then it is air nationally and her ‘bitchiness’ or lack thereof is discussed by the press. I find it very interesting that with all the political wranglings between presidential candidates, that this term is used for Hillary when there are no equivalent derogatory terms used for the male candidates. So I personally find the term offensive on those grounds and especially when a woman uses it for another woman, as it seems like a betrayal to one’s sex.

But on the issue of murder...I am a little on the fence. I don’t believe that it sets a good example in society for society to murder its murderers in the name of moral justice. However, I also feel that murders (in my opinion) forfeit their rights to be treated as a member of society when they have taken someone else’s life - a little like the eye for and eye principle - they have killed themselves and eliminated their rights when they killed the person and eliminated the rights of their victim. I have heard that it actually costs more money to complete the process of executing a person than it does to keep them in prison, but both represent a high cost to society. I suppose I feel that whatever is cheaper should be done. However, if we want our children to really value human life and not to murder, we need to teach them that murder is the most heinous act that man can commit - that includes society murdering in the name of justice. Yet we also (as a society in the US) allow murderers to walk out of prison after just a few years of confinement for their murder in many cases and I actually find this much worse than executing murderers for their crime. I think it gets into the difference really between using the word ‘kill’ or ‘murder’ sometimes. Soldiers ‘kill’ in the name of justice and self defense, society ‘executes’ in the name of justice...but aren’t all these acts really also murder? Its just a matter of where you draw the line for ‘justice’ when killing. Is taking another’s life ever justified? It gets very grey.

That’s why I am on the fence I suppose. But I will admit that I was a bit shocked that Molly killed Bellatrix when I read that passage of the book, because Molly was the most maternal and kind woman through most of the series. I think Rowling wanted to show the inherent ferocity of maternal love in its most extreme cases (both Lily’s and Molly’s), but it surprised me since we don’t see any other member of the ‘good’ side killing. They fight to subdue and to defeat but not to kill. I think I have also read that Rowling says that in the last battle others on the ‘good’ side are killing as well, but I am not certain of that. In any case, Molly is the only woman on the ‘good’ side to kill - which does bring up some moral questions. And in my mind this act is far more serious than the use of the word ‘bitch.’

Oh, and I also thought your mention of Marge's use of the word was interesting. I didn't pick up on the double meaning of that use of the word in her speech at all. But I think you are absolutely right that it is there and I agree that Rowling probably used it with the double meaning in mind. I think because it was used with the literal meaning in the foreground it wasn't questioned.???

Thank you--I have a very wide grin on my face, and I thought of another Aliens reference. The Lieutenant tells his squad to unload their guns and Frost asks: What are we supposed to use; harsh language?
Molly defended her daughter, and Bellatrix was certainly going to kill Molly, then her children--she told Molly this and we all know she would have. It was murder, but it was justifiable Homicide--or maybe we can pretend that Bellatrix was dying from some magical brain fever and Molly put her out of misery to make what Molly did more acceptable. Works for Snape.

I agree about the use of the word Bitch. As used in HP it certain could be considered a racial epithet because no one fights any of the male Death Eaters and tell the Males that their parents are not married--or calls them Son's of said b------... Is any term stronger than "git" is used for the males?

And it what just so--action movie moment.

Well, it's just a matter of habit. I grew up with that word often used as an endearment. It just doesn't have much of an emotional effect at all for me.

But when you are in the position Molly was in, I think that the last thing you'd think about is what name you can call your enemy that fully expresses how much you hate that person without demeaning your own gender.
This is not a word she'd use normally anyway, I don't think swearing was ever something she did a lot.
Of course, Rowling could have had Molly call her something else just for the moral of it, or had her stop at "Not my daughter!" but...well, she didn't.

You know I never used the word or thought the word "bitch" was for an agressive woman, I thought it was more meant for one being nasty. I would never call Hilary Clinton a "bitch". I think there is an male term and for me it's the word that starts with an 'A' and I have never seen applied to a woman. In fact I haven't seen the other b-word for a woman either only men.

The usages of words can be quite flexible and re-interpreted depending on the person.

I was under the impression that due to emotional amount that one put into a spell the stronger it was. So even if she did use a Stunner it could have given Bella a heart attack which killed her. Or perhaps severe enough brain hemeriaging, or any number of things that it may not have been an AK spell.

I don't think Molly did this lightly whatso ever, nor do I think she is going to take what she did lightly either. Already I have read fan fics where she is dealing with what she has done, so I do believe this will remain with her. Frankly I'm proud of Jo for having Molly both use the word and end the life of a killer and menace to society. Think of all the lives that would have been saved had Bella been killed in OOTP instead of DH.

I was referring to the b*****d word in its literal sense...they can be both female or male I believe. The dictionary states: “1. An illegitimate child....3. Slang. A mean or disagreeable person.” But I agree that its most common usage is for men rather than women as a slur.

I also think that Molly would have had a difficult time with her act to some degree later - but probably not the ‘bitch’ statement. I think what bothered me about it was not that she did it, but that Rowling had set up a precedent of not killing with the ‘good’ side. No one else is seen killing in the series on the ‘good’ side except Snape killing DD (at his command/request). Even the most terrible character in the series is not killed by a ‘good’ character, he ends up being killed by his own intent to kill. So in the context of the HP series Molly’s act really stands out - it breaks away from the precedent. As I said before I myself think it is justified, but Molly’s act is the only one of its kind in the series...its no small thing.

See- i come from a slightly different point of view to you i think. i think in the context and in thi book the word is fine BUT there is no way i am letting my children read it until they are in their teens (not an issue yet- they are 18months and 3yrs). I wont have swearing around my children- but i think that the violence and darker themes are more harmful to young children than a swear word. I am of the point of view that harry potter is a coming of age series and as harry gets older- so should the reader 1,2, and 3 are fine for primary school children, 4 and 5 for 12yrs olds and 6 and 7 definately for slightly older teens.
Films are rated for a reason and i think it is my duty as a parent to make sure that my children arent exposed to things that i dont think are age-appropriate in books.

I think one of the points being made is that it incredibly difficult to create life, and then have someone who has no experience in that (or a similar) creation snuff it out like an obstacle.

Molly gave birth to and nurtured seven children - not an easy task by any stretch. There is much of yourself that you put into your children as a mother (and a father, too - but we are dealing with two women here), and for Bellatrix to take away without having first given is like a scrabbling bitch going for first "rights" after a kill. Alpha Dogs are the leaders of their packs, but that leadership is established for breeding rights. Both Voldemort and Bellatrix had no progeny of their own, yet assumed leadership positions that weren't really theirs. Molly was kind-hearted and really only asserted her own position when she was keeping her mischievious pups in line, but Bellatrix was challenging her position with nothing to back up her claim. Bellatrix wouldn't back down, and so Molly had to defend her turf - against an ambitious upstart bitch who took what pleased her without giving something of value back.

In my estimation a "bitch" is a woman who takes without giving, period. The term has been convoluted to include all ambitious women, when it really only applies to women who gain without first paying their dues, and feel that they "deserved" what they got because they "earned" it.

I think that is an excellent point!

To me there was no one better to take down the Anti-Mother figure Bellatrix then the Ultimate Mother figure in the book Molly. I think the thing that really justifies this is the fact that she wasn't going for Revenge like Neville would have been, she was going for Justice.

In a sense I understand your luke warm reaction to this, because many of us have come to gain lots of respect for Molly. Personally, I find the term "bitch" mostly offensive because I feel it is thrown around by people the same way a racial slur can be, and that, I feel is wrong. I am not trying to get into a feminist debate, but that is one POV I have.

Also, yes I kind of had the same reaction about how that might be received by some of our youngest readers. I have a very young nephew, and he is not nearly ready to take on the series, but I could just imagine when he is old enough, not being comfortable reading that line to him. I might say "not my daughter you... WITCH!" So on the one hand yes I think it is understandable to not be so keen on the line.

However, I have to say that when I first read that line, I could not help but cheer! Because I knew that was the pain of having just lost Fred and the fear of loosing her only daughter talking. Let's also not forget that Molly lost two brothers in this struggle and at that point she along with the rest of his supporters thought Harry was dead and she thought of him like a son. While wincing a bit at her line as I was cheering, I found that moment to demonstrate the ferocity with which she loved her family so I can forgive her using that term to Bellatrix. This is a woman you don't mess with. Ever since Bella killed Sirius I have found it hard to not assign that term to her anyway.

I have to agree that there is a time and place for cursing. Its vulgar and shouldnt b used willy nilly. My personal reaction to 'bitch' when I read it was wooohooo!!!!! I knew at that point Bellatrix was going to feel that full force of Molly Weasley. Bellatrix had crossed the line and was gonna pay!! Through the books/movies b------ and buggar have been used. Molly had never sworn up to that point. By swearing the scene as set for THE most intensive duel.

has the second word that you said actually been used? (it's spelt with an e btw). that word is far more vulgar than any we have used in this thread so far. go look up its definition

I never used the word 'bitch' at home or elsewhere as an epithet. With other adults I might have used it in the form bitchy behavior, or acting like a bitch, meaning nasty behavior. Otherwise, I don't use vulgarisms, or curses, although I have heard plenty. My children certainly heard alot of vulgar words in school, even in the elementary grades, but they knew better than to bring them home. So, I feel that children are exposed to these words in school, as well as in the neighborhood. It's up to us to teach them that it is unacceptable in the home or in polite society.

Having said that, it didn't bother me at all that Molly said that to Bellatrix. If somebody like Bellatrix just missed killing my youngest child, and then had the gall to mock me with the death of my son, who knows what I would say to her. If your child is too young to read DH to his/herself, then substitute another word for bitch. By the time your children are old enough to read a book that long and that dark, they will already have come in contact with that word elsewhere.

I never thought that Molly AKd Bellatrix when I read about the fight. I assumed that she had used another spell, that backed by her anger and powerful magic killed her. All through the books, Jo usually spells it out and it is accompanied by a flash of green light. It didn't say anything like that this time, so I took it to be a powerful stunning spell right in the heart from close quarters.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more swearing in the series tbh, especially in the later books. It's more realistic, even if it does set a bad example lol

I have a somewhat different viewpoint, because as a longtime dog lover and reader-about-dogs, I was familiar with the word "bitch" in its literal meaning: a female dog. Heaven knows that I've read and heard the word "bitch" in its vulgar usage enough later; in fact, I think part of the reason this word is so offensive and insulting is that people who use it against a woman imply that they see her as less than human.

When Marge used it, she was using it in the literal sense, a term she often uses as a dog breeder. And she was also using it because she thought of Lily (and her son, or "pup", Harry) as less than human. In her very bigoted view of Harry, she saw him as a lesser creature whose feelings were unworthy of her notice--hence, it was perfectly permissible, in her view, for her to throw around insulting comments on his mother.

In a related topic, I don't believe that Molly used Avada Kedavra--as sver/knor said, JKR normally describes that spell very clearly when someone uses it. There are other, powerful spells that can inflict great harm on the target, and I think she used one of these. This particular casting of the spell may have been especially powerful because of the fury Molly was expressing, and physically because she and Bellatrix were so close together. From all we've read about Bellatrix, she may have made the error of assuming that Molly couldn't overpower her, and hence let her magical self-protection lapse.

i personaly thought that that would be the only reasonbly place to use it in the entire book mostly just because bella was attacking her baby girl so quoted " not my daughter you bitch " because when marge said it it really wasent needed

I would just point out that it is really irrelevant whether Molly uses the Avada Kedavra or another spell. If her intent was to kill (that’s what the Avada Kedavra is...the ‘killing curse’) then its no different. Why would there be some other spell that could be directed at the heart to kill someone that would be more ‘forgivable’? That doesn’t make any sense. I think Rowling avoids the description of the curse to avoid focusing on the more negative aspects of it. If she had described the green flash or had Molly say the words it would have made the act seem darker. I think she deliberately left it vague....but maybe at some point she will clarify whether it was the AK or not.

However, Molly does in fact murder Bellatrix according to Rowling - regardless of the justice of it or the method.

I'm glad that Jo does not used that kind of language on every page but like some people
said her daughter is fighting even thought she in forbidden and is almost killed and one of
her sons is killed. If it was not used it would be strange.

I agree Mademoiselle and well put.

Chloe, thanks for the clarification about the murder issue. I reread the passage as well, and I can see your point. It might be difficult emotionally for a child to come to terms with the ferocity of Molly. According to the passage, when Molly joined the fray she never had any intention other than to kill. Although I agree with her actions in this case, I can see how it is a pretty charged incident. If you can seperate the expletive that Molly screams from the death of Bellatrix, in all reality the death should hold more weight. But, interestingly enough, that's not the case with all parents and what they wish their children exposed to. It just comes down to what things people are most sensitive about. My brother for example, allowed his son to watch "Lord of the Rings" when he was 9, yet has a problem with me allowing my 10 and 13 year old girls watch "The Rocky Horror Picture Show". Whereas I have more of a problem with exposing children to gratuitous violence, he has more of a problem with language or (apparently) men in women's clothing.

I just reread the passage too and noticed that Rowling does use the word "curse" to describe the spell: "Molly's curse soared beneath Bellatrix's outstretched arm and hit her squarely in the chest, directly over her heart. Bellatrix's gloating smile froze, her eyes seemed to bulge. For the tiniest space of time she knew what had happened, and then she toppled..."
As I read it the first time it looked very much like the AK to me.

Yes...I agree. I also personally believe that condoning and applauding gratuitous violence is a much stronger message for children than slurs. Neither are great, but I think that children are more influenced by what you do than what you say - at least that has been my experience with my own child. Words are words...in one ear and out the other. They can be used to inflame or to express intense rage but they are only words - acts can kill. Of course words can do a lot of damage as well, but not as much. And for my own part whether someone says 'friggin' or 'dang' instead of the worse version is irrelevant...they are expressing the same hostility, anger or frustration in the use of them. If we heard a slur in another language we would usually recognize it simply by the intonation. I have much more problem with violence than with bad language. I really believe that the use of either numbs us to a degree to the profundity of its damage - and even watching it used numbs us....but violence does much more damage.

It occurred to me after I wrote my earlier posts that morally I really feel that the cycle of killing (in justifiable homicide) still continues the cycle of killing in much the same way that beating a child for doing something violent is continuing the cycle of violence. I think that is why I am on the fence with the death penalty...on one hand I think that death is a justifiable repayment for murder but it just continues the cycle. But on the other hand I don't feel that a murderer deserves to live after they have snuffed another's life. What we need to remember with Molly and Bellatrix is that Bellatrix was a murderer - but with Molly's act, she too becomes a murderer (then would Narcissa, for example, be justified in killing Molly?). And the cycle continues... I think that is precisely why Rowling names the killing curse an "unforgivable curse" - because it is really unforgivable, thus also really not justifiable. Harry is the prime example of stopping the cycle. He uses Expelliarmus instead of the killing curse, even in the most dire situations with Voldamort. Rowling does set up some moral contrast with Molly's act first and then Harry's act following so closely after.

I was bothered by Molly saying bitch, but for the longest time I couldn't figure out why. I agree it fit the scene, and language can be a powerful too, and I've even said it myself a few times.
What bothers me is that the expression is so Muggle. Aunt Marge says it (discussing actual b------ - female dogs - while insulting Lily), but she's a muggle. Most of the pure blood wizards use a colourful array of wizarding swear terms, so it seems more natural that wizards would have had a wizarding equivalent to this term. I was actually really distracted by Molly saying this because it broke my concentration, my suspension of disbelief. For that reason I wish JK had been a bit more creative.

I agree with Jacobmarley, swearwords have there place but when used properly they are rarely used. I had a friend in college who almost never used them. One time, someone went a little too far teasing him about something and he responded with one (the one that begins with an f). This is a word a person hears a couple of hundred times a day in a college dormitory but it might have been the only time either one of us herd it come out of that particular mouth. The person he said it to reacted as though he had been slapped; anyone else would have had to really hit him to get his message across.

As for the sexist issue Chole Squibbulus brought up; I think that comes from the overuse of the word. I know some men who call all women that (and it annoys me) and have to resort to the c word for the nastier ones. A few even call all women that. That does not reflect on those (such as Molly) who save it for when it is approciate.

I absolutly LOVED it, I really thought "Go Molly!!" She is portrayed as such a loving mother, a real carer, and I think this shows how important her family is and that she'll be damned if she loses another child. I could of thought of alot harsher words to say if I was in Mollys shoes.

I would have to watch the movies to find the clip, I don't remember the exact part. I dont need to look up the definition thanks. Children are exposed to swear words in the playground, I certainly was. I think the other issues in the book are more disturbing than bitch.

Ah, that's an astute observation! I don't come to quite the same conclusion, though, at least regarding suspension of disbelief. Molly has a greater degree of contact with "all things Muggle" than would most purebloods, and the context is one of amused fascination (largely communicated by her husband, of course). Muggle profanity, being outside the wizarding mainstream, might have even had a slight touch of the exotic...even seemed somehow harsher to her. In her emotional state at the time, Molly might well have chosen such a term.

As an aside, I'm fascinated by JKR's slight qualification in describing Molly as the only (non-Death Eater) woman who kills. Not the only female. There is not, as I recall, a clear resolution of the question (asked by a younger student, in fact) of whether or not Alecto Carrow survived Luna's obviously over-the-top powerful Stunning Spell. Or, more precisely, survived being hurled with possibly bone-breaking force against the wall... If she didn't, that would create the rather sadly ironic situation of having gentle, serene Luna as the only student who kills a human (albeit accidentally). Of course, Luna is also probably the only student who could readily come to terms, emotionally, with having done such a thing.

oh so not in the books then? thats what i was refering to. i agree that in secondary school you cant stop it- but language like what we are discribing here was never an issue in my primary schools- i remember an uproar when one of my friends called someone a cow! although i 100% agree on the quote ive bolded. I think that in a book with the events and themes that this has- children that shouldnt read the term bitch should definately not be reading this book in the first place

It's frustrating when an American runs into a British vulgarism. There are alot of words that are very vulgar to a Brit, that are nothing to an American. I don't even know what that word was that was left blank in front of bugger, that you, Shadow-onthesun, suggested that Hufflepuff_hunny look up. You could call me a cow, and it would mean absolutely nothing to me. It's not one of our vulgarisms. Also, even ones we share aren't as bad here as in your country.

It reminds me of when I said to my father that my little brother was an imp, and he responded, totally shocked, that I was never to say that. Well, I was born here, and an imp is nothing more than a little, mischievious, kid. My father , however, was Swedish, and grew up in a country where saying, 'the devil' was extremely bad, and curses were not taken lightly. To him, I was calling my little brother a devil.

So, of course I am dying of curiousity to know what the word was beginning with a b......bugger. And, I'll bet that the American kids don't know it either.

JKRowling's success was partly due to the fact that she created very "human" characters, none of them is the exact definition of 'good', because they all have a dark side inside of them.. And that's what I like... That's why I loved the fact that JKRowling made Molly saying to Bellatrix "You Bitch", it was something she would have done herself if her children would have been in danger.. That way JKR didn't created an unnaturally "made-up" character, just for the purpose of it.. I know that a lot of people like Molly, but have they ever thought how "real" she is or was? In the previous books all the other characters acted so life-like, but no, she really seemed so good-natured flawless... Where were her drawbacks, where was her dark side?? And we saw that side in DH, when Molly (like any other mother) turned to this wonderful angry woman, when her children were in danger..

I hate perfect people because I don't believe that perfection exists.. I really love normal, human, flawed characters that I can connect with... Like Molly..

No she doesn't. The interviewer says murder, Jo says kill (and there could be an issue of translation here as it has presumably been translated twice). The text of the book does make it clear that they were both fighting to kill, but I am not sure it would be considered murder even if Bellatrix had killed Molly in the duel. But Molly isn't the only one prepared to kill, McGonagall threatens Slughorn with a duel to the death if he or the Slytherins try to sabotage the defense of the castle. So it seems McGonagall is also prepared to kill to protect others.
McGonagall examines Alecto and confirms she is only stunned, so Alecto was in no danger.

I don't see how what Molly did could be called murder. I expect there was a translation problem. And you are correct that Jo did not use the word herself. She used the word kill.

But there were several instances where the good guys did things that could and probably did result in the death of a bad guy. Kingsley reports that they injured a couple of Death Eaters and may have killed one. Tonks brags about Ron hitting a Death Eater in the head with a stunning spell. He probably fell to his death, or could have. To Ron it is the same. He thought he had done him in. Harry also knocked one off his broom with an Impediment Jinx and stunned another. There was nothing in the book about these folks being saved from falling to their deaths.

Whether these Death Eaters survived or not, I don't consider any of these act murder.

Actually, Harry doesn't stun anyone while they are flying, he does use impedimenta on one, but there is no indication that that death eater lost both his wand and his broom, so that death eater should have survived. And the one that hits the wall has a death eater going after him to save him.

Chole while I applaud and respect your point of view on this I feel there is a bit of a distintion to be made here. Realizing that killing another life is never to be condoned, there are times where sadly enough it must be done to protect ourselves and the ones we love. It was not done out of spite, vengence, or punishment. Molly was under threat of death herself as well as her baby girl. This is not the equivalent of a justifiable homicide, this was self-defense. There is nothing stronger than that and a motherly instinct to protect her offspring. To me, it's not that Bella deserved to die, in fact she probably got the easy way out, but she didn't really leave anyone any choice. I can't imagine, even the most pacifist among us, if faced with the same situation would not do the same. If it came down to my lovely daughter, and a murderous being like Bella, I would do exactly as Molly did.

From the Chapter The Seven Potters:

So yes, Harry stunned at least one of them and he fell. Also, the Impediment Jinx freezes the opponent for quite a while. Probably long enough for him to fall, but that is just a guess.

I think it was entirely appropriate and well placed in that scene - as brilliantly placed as Monty Python's 'more f..... gondolas' in their travelogue spoof to great comic effect. As this is the only use of a swear word in the whole series, it really stood out as an expression of Molly's anger - and let's face it the term 'bitch' in itself is mild for someone as vile as Bellatrix - even the word considered the most offensive of all, of itself, wouldn't cut it for summing up what a horror Bellatrix is.

I think one can be too precious about the use of swear words - it all depends on context. I see swear words having a place in good language use as being analogous to the use of bird's eye chillis in cooking - too much and the palate becomes desensitized as it were, but just the right amount in the right context and it can add real expressive fire to the language - or even humour.

I am not saying that swear words should not come with a 'handle with care' label attached to them and adults have the responsibility to teach young people when, where and how they should be used. Language is all about communication and any communication, using swear words or not, that is designed to insult or hurt another's sensibilities should be approached with extreme caution. Having said this, I'd rather be playfully called an f.... fool than a piece of vermin! It's all in the intent of the communication not the word itself. Molly's use of 'bitch' to Bellatrix was so powerful and yes, shocking because it expresses her well-justified fury against Bellatrix - the word as such is immaterial, save that we recognize it is not a word she would use lightly.