Other than Percy, Harry, and Ron's instant response and when Fred is killed, and the statement that they choose to not to let Voldemort and his Death Eaters lie with those who had fought him, do readers think scenes of mourning, or good byes to characters, good and bad, would have served to enrich the final chapters of Death Hallows or would it have served no other purpose that sentimental--that is letting readers say good bye to characters like Lupin, Tonks, Fred, or Colin?

In this thread: 1) Express what you missed or didn't miss as a fan:(i. e. For me, Arthur and Molly mourning their son. Or a confrontation between Andromeda and Narcissa, with Andromeda and her orphaned grandson in her arms, with her dead but monstrous sister in one room, her daughter and son-in-law in the other.) 2) Express and what you felt would not or would have worked as a critical reader--in terms of constructive critism of course.

What I would have liked to see is a scene similar to the one at the end of HBP, where everyone is gathered together, telling us what we didn't see as we were focusing on Harry. We never did see Tonks' and Lupin's death scenes, and there was plenty of other background information that we missed. It would have been nice to see everyone together, mourning their loses, learning about everything that happened in this historic battle, and get a glimpse of what the future was about to be like before we get the epilogue. A lot happens in the 19 years between the Battle of Hogwarts and the epilogue scene, not to mention in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Hogwart, so the abrupt transition to the epilogue almost seems like a spoiler for a huge chunk of Harry's life.

Freds death hit me the worst and I think it was because JKR focused on it how she did. I felt that the other deaths didn't make as much of an impact because they were literally mentioned in passing. I wish she wouldn've focused some more on them, if even after V was dead and the battle was over. It's more than just a longing for information. It's hard to mourn their deaths properly. It would be sufficiently sad to see some memorial or something for the deaths of the people that died. It seems like it was just left off. I'm not one of those people that say that the deaths shouldn't have happened. I think that they were necessary to show the consequences of battle. It's just, it seems like we didn't have a chance to mourn them properly. I don't really know how to explain it...sorry.

This is one of the things which ruined DH for me. I'm not saying it was overall. But it was absolutely pathetic to jump from the last chapter to the epilogue the way she did. I felt like she trivialized the deaths of many people of importance. Whom Harry cared about deeply. It was totally unrealistic.



This is what I felt. There should've been some kind of gathering scene. A memorial to the fallen soldiers. Even as tired as Harry was, I don't believe he'd just go to bed. Totally not caring about anything around him. Even though there's not much he could've done at this point, he still wouldn't have done that.

what an excellent topic - it had never occurred to me to think of a scene between Andromeda and Narcissa - that would have been great -so much potential in such a scene

I would have preferred to have witnessed Tonks and Remus's deaths - rather than to have heard they had died - but yes - a gathering where the survivors talked about how they died - and expressed their grief would have been more suitable than the epilogue

I also missed that no one ever thought to retrieve Snape's body - Harry might have mentioned it - that this brave man's body lied alone in the shrieking shake - and that it should be retrieved to join the others who died for the cause. Ya know - before Harry got his sandwich - he could've mentioned it.

But we do have the funeral of Dobby. And there is a mourning scene with the Weasley clan in the Great Hall.

The fact is that this is how a tragedy of this magnitude is met. A room full of the dead and there's Neville eating breakfast and being admired by his fans.

During a radio program about D-Day, a journalist told of discussing working on the documentary with his bank teller while cashing a check. The old man behind him suddenly piped up "I was there."

And he had. He'd been in the first wave with the Canadians. He invited the journalist home for tea and he told his story. How they'd all be sea-sick; how his best friend took a shell to the chest seconds after the landing craft's door had opened; how they'd been pinned to the beach for the better part of that day; and how nearly everyone who'd been with him in that boat had died.

While he told his tale to the journalist, he was overwhelmed by emotion and wept again and again. And the memories of that day were still vivid and detailed even though it had happened sixty years ago.

What astonished the journalist was that this was the first time he had talked about that day, D-Day. In sixty years he had never told his wife, his children or his friends of the horror of that day. It took a chance encounter near the end of his life to give him an opportunity to tell what happened and how much it meant to him.

A funeral scene at the end would have been false. It would have not had the authenticity of a really traumatic experience. Indeed, even 19 years later Harry is still checking his scar.

In both World Wars, those in uniform sang:"Really gives a feeling for the scope and tragedy of the thing, doesn't it?"

I agree here. It could have come across as though JKR was trying to milk every last one of our tears - too sentimental and overplayed. I think we do get our chance as readers to farewell Lupin, in the forest scene. That was so poignant and the fact that he was there along with those dearest to Harry, his parents and Sirius, told us all we needed to know about what Lupin had come to mean to Harry. George's reaction when Fred is killed, a twin cradling his dead brother's head - what could be more eloquent? In scenes like this often less is more.

I don't think we necessarily needed a DD- or Dobby-like funeral scene, but IMO, we don't get nearly enough time to mourn the deaths of some very important characters.

Fred was an intricate part of Harry's life, and not just because he was a member of the one family that Harry felt truly a part of: he once helped free Harry from one of his worst situations with the Dursleys, and he eventually returned the favour by giving Fred (and George, obviously) the sizeable start-up loan that enabled them to embark on a highly successful career. You could also make a strong case that, besides Ron and Hermione, Fred and George were Harry's closest friends.

Lupin also meant a lot to Harry: he was one of his late father's best friends, and as Sirius also suffered a pre-mature death, Lupin was Harry's last connection to the father he never knew (Pettigrew obviously doesn't count). Admittedly, they did not always see eye-to-eye in DH, but they certainly made amends when Lupin named Harry the godfather of his only child. The fact that we only hear of Lupin's death in passing, meeting him again only briefly because of the Resurrection Stone, makes it seem as though the ending was rushed to say the least.

The first time I read DH I also felt it was a rushed ending and wanted more between the last chapter and the epilogue, but I think that was because I read it so fast it felt like I hit a brick wall when I got to the epilogue. But in hindsight I don't mind not having all the mourning. As others have said it would seem false; it is too soon for it to really come crashing home to all these people. And also the randomness of some of the deaths is the way it is in war. The people we love don't all have huge death scenes right in front of us. In fact I think it brings about the true brutality of what has happened to Harry that he sees Lupin and Tonks out of the blue like that. I know it hit me like a blow to the stomach. And that is how it would be in reality: many people's deaths would come out of nowhere and hit us hard.

I think those who think Harry should go minister to the mourning folks around him rather than getting some sleep and a sandwich are being a bit harsh. This is the person who has been up since dawn the day before (it is now well past dawn this day) and during that time has walked to what he thought was his own death. I think he would take a bit of time out to reconcile himself with what's going on before going out and being 'the boy who lived' for them all again, especially if he felt responsible in anyway. And I'm sure they would want him to be that icon. Luna is perceptive enough to see that he needs to get away, and of course he does. He has a lot to process and he needs to do that alone.

The only thing I really still want is to see the first meeting between Harry and Ginny after all this is over. The last we see them they are both clearly still interested in each other but there's a whole lot of baggage come between them since that kiss at the Burrow. I'd just like to see how they get through all that ... we have Ron and Hermione making the most of a wartime situation but Harry and Ginny are facing a post-war reunion; a much different kettle of fish what with all the mourning the two of them have to do as well. If I were to want any mourning scenes that would be it: how did they cope with their personal joy in the midst of their personal tragedies. It would be a way to show the impacts of those deaths without taking anything away from the grieving we have already seen happening.

But as a general thing I think we have plenty of reactions to the deaths (especially the Weasleys with Fred and Harry's reaction to seeing Lupin and Tonks and talking to Lupin in the forest) and too much more would be a bit morbid and depressing, however cathartic, given that we are meant to be celebrating the joy that is the downfall of Tom Riddle jnr.

For emotional reasons, a funeral would have been good, but in terms of story, it would have thrown things way out of focus. She had to keep with Harry's story more than anything else, and while Fred's funeral would have been a nice touch, I think it would have taken something from the story as a whole, unlike DD's funeral, which is integral to the larger plot.

I like the way you phrased this. It was rather like that, and I imagine in a real war it's like this. One doesn't expect to see a familiar name or face among the dead.

The other people were not exactly napping and feasting the day of the battle or before.

I do not begrudge Harry a sandwich or a nap. He more than deserved a rest, food, comfort. But he doesn't ask Hermione or Luna to get him one does he? He could have used the cloak, like his father, and gone to the kitchens himself--and been alone. The question posed, had to do with Harry wondering if Kreacher can make him a sandwich--which Kreacher possibly did--even if at the time he was called he was tending to his own wounds or another elf's. Harry still thinks of Kreacher as his servant--it is something we wonder will change. And for some readers, it doesn't matter. the image of Kreacher is Gunga Din-like character, who would be ready to offer his master water, even if was at the point of his own death makes sense in away, as Kreacher never wanted Harry as a master. But it kind of blows the conversation about liberty...

As to scenes of mourning--I agree with those who think Jo could have gone overboard with this, but on the other hand but we don't see George and Little Fred in the end, although James Sirius Potter certainly has a bit of his Uncle's as well as his Grandfather's ways.

I see that Harry wanting a sandwich from Kreacher is more like a child wanting a snack or home-cooked meal from their mother. In those last months before the Exile, Kreacher made 12 Grimmauld Place a home for Harry : he cooked his meals, washed and pressed his clothes, cleaned up after him...things a mother typically does for a child. Even though Harry is an adult, after the journey he's been through he wants that sense of comfort and normalcy that life goes on. Mothers have bad days along with their children, but often, returning to a routine promotes a sense of well-being for all involved, and doing things that are typical to the family life makes us feel secure and purposeful.

I think that Harry wanting a sandwich is part of the mourning process, but although a healthy one. Often when people die, the community which they are a part of gathers together to provide for the family members with food: casseroles, prepared sandwiches, coffee, pastries...comforting yet filling foods which remind the family members that they still need to meet their own bodily needs, in that they are still living, and that the community depends on them for its own survival. It is often the females in the community that recognize this need, and it is a very social thing. It doesn't mean that the females don't feel the pain any less, but giving them something to do affirms that they are indeed living and makes them feel useful and needed. It also promotes security that when (not if) they have a loss in their own family, that the community will ensure that same support to their own family's survival. Kreacher is no more a slave in Harry's eyes than any mother is a slave to her family.

Harry also needing food shows us that he is still very human. When do we see Voldemort eating in the Series? In a way, Harry wanting a sandwich is a very pronounced, yet extremely subtle hint that he is not beyond the needs of a living human being: although he has had an extraordinary experience, it has not transcended him to something beyond humanity. He is still very tangible and "real".

ETA: I'll even go out here on a limb, to draw the connection with Sirius's attitude towards Kreacher stemming from the fact that Kreacher was an extension of his mother's influence. Kreacher would have taken on many of the typically "mothering" capacities for the Black children: Regulus seems to realize this and strikes out against He that sought to ill-use his pseudo mother, Kreacher. Regulus in a very big way defends Kreacher's honor as a "good" son often protects his mother. Sirius had nothing but derision for his mother's parenting, and his treatment of Kreacher was substitutionary for what his mother didn't provide for him - a loving home. Kreacher performed the care-taking duties of the Black family, and while that might have supported his bodily needs, Sirius was still lacking in a meaningful relationship with his mother. This kind of meaningful relationship often stems from taking care of the bodily needs of another, it fosters empathy on both the caregiver and the one being cared for, and it often cannot develop without some sort of give and take.

It is possible. But I've always thought Harry saw Molly as his mother--his first hug of memory, having him tuck in at breakfast after her sons rescue him, helping him find his way, giving him a birthday cake and a watch from his brother. He couldn't very well ask the mother who just lost her son to make her a sandwich. Also he was about to share parenthood with Andromeda, he couldn't ask her. Hermione has always mothered Harry, but she doesn't offer--she's comforting Ron.

I saw nothing in the relationship between Harry and Kreacher that made me think Harry saw Kreacher as anything other than what he was: a very reluntant servant, who became a happy, eager to please and fight for his master servant. In dramas or literature when the hero -- or more often the heroine -- purchases or inherits a ancestral home they also inherit hostile servants (or ghost--Harry has a nagging portrait, the ghoul in the loo and an homicidal dressing gown). The master/mistress have to prove themselves worthy. That's a very common theme. Mammy didn't wear that red petticoat until Miss Scarlett had Mister Rhett's baby and she saw wearing out the floor...

I personally don't think, because of what we know of Harry, if, when he answered Harry call--and magic would compell him to--Kreacher was tired, wounded, concerned for a fellow elf's health, that Harry would have ignored his distress or condition. That isn't Harry's way. Remember how he put aside his own anger and grief to feel sympathy for Luna? Harry's a good guy. He and Kreacher are still bound together in the immoral system of elfin slavery, but the system is not of either of their making. Making it right is for any future epilogue

As to Sirius and Kreacher: it seems that Winky, like Mammy in Gone With The Wind, was surregate mother, wife, and possibly nanny to both Barty Crouch's. It is very likely that Kreacher acted as "nanny" to Sirius and Regulus, caring for them since they were babies--so the extention of their mother seems a more fitting example for Sirius and Regulus than it does to Harry.

Back to mourning, I did want some kind of resolution even a final parting between the Sister's Black--in a way for Sirius and Regulus sake. It would have been interesting , but possibly not realistic, to have Draco introduce Scorpius to his cousin Teddy....But in Jo's world, only "nice" families seek healing.

I agree, a funeral would've been too much. I just wish there was a time of mourning shortly after all the commotion had died down. We didn't get a constructive way to be sad for the people that died...well, I didn't.

Harry had just fought the battle of a life time. He bet the baddest dark wizard possibly ever and lived to talk about it. Even after that he went to Ron and Hermione and told them what happen in the forest and what he saw in the Pensieve. Harry then went to talk to Dumbledore and told him of the ring and how he didn't want the wand. There was nothing for him to do after this, but get some sleep and something to eat.

When he thought to ask Kreacher to bring him a sandwich, maybe that was his way of being able to talk to Kreacher. Kreacher had did good in going to Hogwarts and getting the elves in the kitchen. Kreacher had finally opened up to Harry, Ron, and even Hermione. I don't think he thought of Kreacher has his slave, Harry doesn't think like that. Plus we don't know how Kreacher felt, maybe he would've been happy to do that for Harry.

My simple thought here is the entire denouement was relatively weak. We go from climax to last page in less than 10 minutes of reading.

I've said in other places, I'd love to see an 8th novel... Harry Potter and the Reconstruction of Hogwarts... take us from the Headmaster's office through Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione's weddings. Give us snippets as they settle into adult lives.

Funny. I'm watching my son do the transition from HS to preparing to leave for college right now. Sometimes good ideas come when you're not so close to the tree that you can see the forest.

My thoughts exactly. We arrived at the epilogue far too quickly after the most exciting climax of the series. Don't forget, though, there's still the Scottish book left. I wouldn't put it past Jo to give us all the juicy details within the 19 years that were over-looked.

Don't forget, though, there's still the Scottish book left. I wouldn't put it past Jo to give us all the juicy details within the 19 years that were over-looked.
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Yeah there would be the scotish book but I am curious:When? I wanted it as soon as possible, but if anyone knows when it would be published, or if Jo started writing let me know

It won't be published for quite a while yet. Jo's taking a well-deserved break (thankfully not for the same reasons as Barty Crouch ), and even once she does start writing it, I would imagine that, because it's an encyclopaedia, it will take a long time to compile (especially considering how many boxes of notes she will be sifting through ). Patience is a virtue, and good things come to those who wait, so I guess I'll have to restrain my impatience for the time being!

That is true, but through Sirius, Harry got 12 Grimmauld Place as his home, and Kreacher, once he received his dignity back, made that dingy place a true home for Harry. He happily made him gourmet meals, his favorite treacle tart...the way he literally scampered about the house with Regulus' locket on was an affirmation of his worth. When it came to Molly and Hermione, they were mothering figures to Harry, but they weren't his "house mother" - that was Kreacher.



Well, I see that Kreacher, even in the battle, wasn't fighting for Harry, he was fighting for Regulus. I'm re-reading Order of the Phoenix now, and for 10 years, the house at Grimmauld Place was neglected and "maintained" as a decrepit shrine to the House of Black. Kreacher lost all sense of pride in himself, didn't groom himself, he was in mourning for the entire time after Regulus and then Mistress died. Once Harry affirmed Kreacher's loss, of not only his identity, but the one master who gave his own life to spare Kreacher's, his mourning lifted and Kreacher himself was able to move on. It wasn't Harry who proved himself, but his acknowledgement of Kreacher's service and devotion to The Noble House of Black , that was the turning point in their relationship. It wasn't necessarily to the family, but to the family's house that Kreacher now recognized his allegiance, though he was still "allowed" to hold reverence and the memories of the former Masters of the House. He is literally a house-elf, after all. Many times when people die (or in a corporate take-over), the "survivors" are compelled to forget their former alliances to make way for the "new order". Harry cannot and does not wish to take Regulus' place in Kreacher's heart, but he does make it possible for Kreacher to maintain his dignity through fulfilling the continuation of his position of service.

I do agree that there is quite an abrupt transition between the end of the battle at Hogwarts and the epilogue. I would also have liked a gathering/funeral like there was for Dumbledore. But I can also see why that wasn't a good literary idea. Death and battle of such magnitude tend to end in an anti-climactic fashion, and people deal with death, and the afermath in different ways. Yes, the fact that Harry wanted a sandwich from Kreacher is a bit odd; but considering what he just went through, I really can't blame him. Let's not forget that he is just 17!!! I mean, can we rip him apart because of that, and because all he wants to do is go to bed, knowing he won't have any more "visions", nightmares, or vivid windows into Voldemort's memory?

And in order to have a funeral, there might have been a risk involved if there was one written: I don't thik J.K. wanted to undermine the death of ANYONE who took part in the battle, so those who died rested in peace in the Great Hall with their friends and family around them. The Weasley's had gathered in the Great Hall for Fred, as well as for Lupin and Tonks. I think J.K. meant for the grieving process for all involved be more of a private matter, and by no means undermining their significance.

One more time. No one is begrudging the boy a sandwich. I agree. I have nothing but understanding for Harry's exhaustion and I'm certain any number of people would have been glad to fix him a seven course meal, including Kreacher. But the only person who has to answer when Harry calls is Kreacher. But as I noted, because we know the kind of person Harry is, the minute Kreacher materializes, happy to serve Harry, if there is any reason-- Kreacher is exhausted (He's probably the same age as Dumbledore) after leading the elves in battle, wounded, or tending to kins-elve's wounds-- to give Kreacher a much needed moment of rest or comfort, Harry will note this and do it. He always puts others needs before his own and I have no reason to think this would be any different with Kreacher.

The situation just puts readers--especially those readers concerned with institution of elf slavery-- in the odd position of being grateful Harry in his exhaustion has inherited a servant to tend to his needs, as it would seem highly inappropriate for Harry to ask this favor any of his human friends. They've all been through a battle, loss friends and relatives. But of course I do not begrudge the boy rest and food.

Thanks for clarifying the above. And I myself am concerned about the institution of elf slavery. However, even though Harry is thinking about maybe asking Kreacher for a sandwich, I do not feel at odds at all. Harry was not in control of the fact that he inherited Kreacher. The fact that he seems to want to ask Kreacher for a sandwich is just that. I don't feel anything less for Harry after he made that comment at the end of the book.

QUOTE

The other people were not exactly napping and feasting the day of the battle or before.

But he doesn't ask Hermione or Luna to get him one does he? He could have used the cloak, like his father, and gone to the kitchens himself--and been alone. The question posed, had to do with Harry wondering if Kreacher can make him a sandwich--which Kreacher possibly did--even if at the time he was called he was tending to his own wounds or another elf's. Harry still thinks of Kreacher as his servant--it is something we wonder will change. And for some readers, it doesn't matter. the image of Kreacher is Gunga Din-like character, who would be ready to offer his master water, even if was at the point of his own death makes sense in away, as Kreacher never wanted Harry as a master. But it kind of blows the conversation about liberty...

Although I agree with you say about other people not exacly napping and feasting, and the fact that they are just as exhausted as Harry, I have to put most of the exhaustion on Harry. He just saved the wizarding world and essentially died doing so. Again, not to say that he didn't have help; everyone there at the battle was fighting not only for the survival of the wizarding world, but for Harry as well. And I am sure he is very grateful for that. And he is grateful to Kreacher and the elves who took part in the battle. Of course, I am not undermining those that did die either.

Why should Harry ask Luna or Hermione to get him a sandwich? I could ask you this: why didn't he ask Ron or Neville to get him a sandwich? He could go and get it himself, but why should he? Unfortunately Harry does see Kreacher as a servant, but I truly believe that Harry would try to set Kreacher free. But as things go in the wizarding world, we see time and time again that the elves for the most part don't want to be free. They want to work. But, they have this attitude because of their enslavement, which is a shame, but true nonetheless. So, even though Harry sees Kreacher as a servant, that doesn't make him less of a hero.

Again, answering the question of the thread, a gathering would have been nice for those who gave their lives and died... but it might have been too much under the circumstances.

I believe Harry would set him free. As it is Luna who suggested he get away, how easy would it have been for her to ask if he needed anything, or for him to ask. I don't feel any less respect for Harry. Fate and his author has delivered him a faithful servant.

It depends how Jo intended the passage to be read. Again it isn't a matter of whom Harry asked, but the fact that he asked the one individual who, no matter his state at the moment called--must answer. I hope we are not supposed to feel Kreacher's continued condition is "okay" or acceptable because Harry is a hero and a kind master. I think we are supposed to think that Harry thought of Kreacher as his servant, which Kreacher was. I don't think Harry was thinking of Kreacher as his slave, because Harry wouldn't want a slave who is compelled by magic and tradition to serve him whether he does so happily or not. I imagine sometime in the future Harry does learn the difference. What the readers conclude is a different matter although I agree this discussion belongs in the underlying message thread. But I doubt if Jo even gave the matter any deeper thought than: Kreacher is Harry's servant and more than proud to serve the Hero of the War. For all we know, in that fictional setting, still in tears for Fred, Mrs. Weasley might have shown up at the door with a full tea on the tray. I've seen people grieving try to heal their own loss by ministering to others before, and Molly seems the type to do so. As Fred risked her mother wrath to rescue Harry from relatives who were starving him, she might think looking after Harry is what Fred would want her to do.

That's an odd statement, so I'm taking for granted you mean Harry is the only one of those attacked who seemed to die and got up, as there are a number of people who were wounded and did die during the battle. I took youyour statement to mean after everything Harry has seen and had to face--all his life, not just in that day-- he's in a little worst shape than any of the wounded. The truly dead are beyond the need for comfort or healing. And their are others, like McGonagall or even Filtch who are better equipped to attend to the dead, wounded, and give the others comfort at that time. I think I expressed sympathy for Harry's condition and his great ordeal. It certainly does seem he has gone through more that day than any one else.

I agree with those who think that had Jo showed a detailed scene of the aftermath of the Weasley's mourning Fred, or perhaps McGonagall wondering what on earth she could tell Colin's mother, or Andromeda and Naricissa confronting each other, the novel would have moved into maudlin territory. It would have seemed simple sentimentality, and possibly not have that much literary value.

The point of the novel was how one deals with death--whether it is death from illness, death from accidental injury, or death as the result of war or criminal actions. One goes on with one's life, you live. Even if grieving you're still hungry, you're still relieved that the crisis has passed, you bury the dead and start over.

Although I am a complete sap when it comes to getting all the loose ends neatly tied up - I really appreciated the epilogue - I must agree that to have delved into a time of mourning for each character who died, would have been overkill.

Also, if JKR had given more mourning time for Fred, Lupin, Tonks, Colin, etc...what about Sirius? We really didn't have an opportunity to "properly" mourn him either. Because, as so many have said, this is just the way it is in war and I think the way JKR wrote these scenes clearly portrays that sense of shock mingled with loss.

I think sethtaylorsummer's sentiments matched mine the most closely when she said that she read DH so fast that it felt like she hit a brick wall when she came to the end. And I think perhaps that is why some feel they would have liked an "official" scene of grieving - there was an abrupt shift.

We know Fred's family and friends mourned him. We know that Lupin and Tonks were memorialized. There's no doubt in my mind that all of them had hero's funerals. For the poor Creevey family, I just hope they were able to find comfort in the wizarding world. We don't know much about them.

As for Andromeda and Narcissa....well, Narcissa and Lucius may have tunred their backs on their fellow Death Eaters for the sake of their child, but I highly doubt they were ready to go to Narcissa's now mixed blood family, confess the wickedness of their actions and make up in tears and many hugs. I have a feeling that after the fall of Voldemort there was no "making-up" per se within that family. I imagine them as having a cool civility toward one another, much like we see when Draco and his family spot the Weasleys and Potters 19 years later.

one of the most striking things I find in the novels is how, through so much sorrow and death and destruction-the end of the book is always hopeful, it's one of my favorite things about the series, that although there is so much violence and evil, there is still a great ammount of good that can be found. From a writing perspective I'm not sure where a funeral would have belonged. The book (excluding the epilogue) needed to end that night. In reading it I felt so tired by the end, not actually tired as in, I wanted to sleep, but just emotionally exhausted and I think Harry felt that way too. Often in life there are times when you can't focus on something you'd like too-as others in this thread have said very articulately, especially in war you need to remain focused in order to survive. I think Jo illustrated the chaos and confusion and frenzy of wartime very accurately in her choosing not to show each death and take time to mourn, and by the time Harry was in Dumbledore's office I was ready for that night to be over, for the release. Although the epilogue wasn't perhaps her best writing I think it was the best way to end the book-and we were able to mourn in a bittersweet way with the names of the children etc. I like to think that each person who died defending Hogwarts was honored in a way-they certainly deserved it.

I don't know about that. He may not have been given a funeral (as there was no body), but in the chapters following the Ministry scene in OotP, we get a very clear idea of how Harry feels about his death. Again, I'm not saying that we needed a huge funeral scene for each character; that would take far too long, and it obviously wasn't necessary for Sirius. However, I don't think that we get quite enough time to fully appreciate what has just transpired:

Not only do we not get time to truly feel for those who were lost, but we also don't really get much of a chance to savour the fact that the war with LV is finally over, or relish the joy and happines that comes with it. Yes, the epilogue does give us the sense that everything is peaceful again, but we don't really see this peaceful atmosphere settle in; it just happens all of a sudden. Considering how much could have been said about the end of the war, from both a mournful and a joyful perspective, it seems as though there is a whole chapter missing from DH.

I actually interpreted Harry's wanting to ask Kreacher for a sandwich differently. When I read that line, I honestly didn't think Harry wanted to summon Kreacher just so he could get food. I genuinely believe that Harry wanted to see if Kreacher was ok; if he was hurt, and how the other elves were doing. I can go even further than that: Harry might have offered Kreacher his freedom right then and there! Of course, that is not how Jo wrote it in the book. But that is how I interpreted the line; you interpret it differently. And that gives way to great discussion!

QUOTE(lirene)

He just saved the wizarding world and essentially died doing so.

QUOTE(Maime the Hunter)

That's an odd statement, so I'm taking for granted you mean Harry is the only one of those attacked who seemed to die and got up, as there are a number of people who were wounded and did die during the battle. I took youyour statement to mean after everything Harry has seen and had to face--all his life, not just in that day-- he's in a little worst shape than any of the wounded. The truly dead are beyond the need for comfort or healing. And their are others, like McGonagall or even Filtch who are better equipped to attend to the dead, wounded, and give the others comfort at that time. I think I expressed sympathy for Harry's condition and his great ordeal. It certainly does seem he has gone through more that day than any one else.

No, that's not what I meant; let me clarify. What I say is not an odd statement at all. And for all intents and purposes Harry did die; by facing Voldemmort in the forest he sacrificed himself for the entire wizarding world. That is no small feat!! The fact that he didn't die and go back to the battle was his choice, and as we know, it's our choices who make us who we are. Harry has had to face more in his young life than most adult wizards. But in no way are Harry's hardships more important than anyone else's per say; they are more important in the context that he is the hero of the story. But you took my quote out of an entire paragraph. If you look again in my post, you will see that I express the following: I in no way undermine those that have fought with and for Harry, and those that have died in the battle, including the elves, and all other magical creatures.

Oh, and about the whole sandwich thing, here's the exact quote:



I did not interpret this as Harry thinking of asking Kreacher for a sandwich, but rather wondering if Kreacher would think to bring him one when he went to bed (i.e. hoping that Kreacher would just know that he could use some food). I don't think Harry ever considers asking anyone to prepare him some food - he is far too selfless for that to cross his mind. But when the trio lived at 12GP, Kreacher would always prepare them meals - without being asked to do it every time. So, after the war has clearly ended at last, Harry is just wondering if, or rather hoping that, Kreacher would continue to do so.

harry pottergeek2, are you like me and just wanted the story go on? That's kind of how I interpret your last post. It's funny, because from a literary perspective, I know the story had to end, but I would keep reading just as long as JKR wanted to write about that world.

Harrypottergeek, I understand that. And maybe Harry didn't call him, maybe he drifted off to sleep. However, had Harry called Kreacher it wouldn't have mattered what Harry meant, or that Kreacher was happy to bring it to him, or if Kreacher might have been comforting another elf and didn't want to come at the moment. Unless Harry had assigned Kreacher to do something else and Kreacher wasn't done yet, if Harry calls, Kreacher has to answer. It is not the request, it is Kreacher's continued existance as Harry's property that is the question left open.

I can't speak for Harrypottergeek, but yes, there are somethings I wish we could have seen. What happened to Harry's house--Grimmuald place that is? How did George and Angelina get together? How did Colin's Muggle parents react...so many unanswered questions...

Well, I won't deny that I would have read the book through to the end if it had've been twice as long, and enjoyed every word , but the reason why I said it almost seems like there's a chapter missing from DH is because - as almost everyone agrees - the epilogue arrived rather abruptly.

When I first read DH, and came to the "19 years later" part, the first thing that came to my mind was "What?! Already?!". I mean, the last thing we see before this is Harry intending to go to sleep (which, don't get me wrong, was well-earned), but like I said in my previous post, there wasn't much mourning for those who were lost, or even celebration for the end of the war! (at least, not in canon - I'm sure there was in Jo's mind, but we don't see it in the books).

Considering how much the end of the war is supposed to mean to everyone, we don't get to really see the immediate impact of it's ending. Think about it: how happy would you have been about the end of the war, and how sad would you be about those you had lost? All we get after a fantastic death scene for LV is a few remarks to sum up what happens politically, a very brief scene in the Great Hall, and a quick chat with DD's portrait. It all just seemed way too rushed for an ending that should have been filled with euphoria and mourning (like what Jo experienced when she finished writing DH ).

I see what you mean, I really do. It was an abrubt transistion. I wonder though, how JKR could have gone about it, without it being overdone.
It took 7 books to fully show the horror caused by Voldemort's power. We had an idea of it in book 1.
It was really creepy in book 2. A memory taking form???
In book 3, we saw that his power caused a runty little wizard to betray, possibly the only people who had ever been kind to him.
In 4, it's obvious, I think, "Oh bloody h***," sums it up.
In 5, we see that Voldemort will NOT stop until Harry is dead and we find out that, pretty much, unless Harry can kill Voldemort first, that's how it will have to be.
Book 6 shows us just how desperate Tom Riddle was to become immortal and that translates into an unspeakable evil.
Then, finally, DH. We finally get to witness the moment of truth. Harry finally defeats Voldemort. (after a very hard journey and a harder battle.)
I think if she had wanted to, JKR could have written at least a whole other book about the beauty and wonder of a post-Voldemort world. Without doing so, she would have inevitably left something out that someone wanted to know. (I guess that's where the Scottish book comes in.)
Like I said before, I really do like to see all the loose ends neatly tied up. I hate it when a movie leaves me hanging and doesn't make everything neat. So I do understand where you all are coming from. I just feel that we have seen what we need to see to know that George and the rest of his family, although ecstatic about the demise of LV, will never be the same. There will always be a hole in their family. Percy was probably the most haunted, even more so than George perhaps, because of his long estrangement from his brother and the rest of the family.
We know that Teddy would grow up hearing wonderful stories about how heroic his parents and grandfather were and how much they loved him. Harry would be his support when the days without his parents were unbearable. But at the same time, unlike Harry, he would grow up in a home filled with love.
Harry would never, ever forget his first friend, a beautiful snowy owl. Nor would he forget dear, sweet, faithful Dobby. (although really, we did get to witness his grief for him.) He would always remember the overly enthusiastic little boy with the camera, and I think Harry would often wonder about Colin's family and maybe even contact them to offer what comfort he could.

I wonder if JKR felt that the grief each person experienced was so personal, that that is one of the reasons she didn't show it to us. Maybe it was something so private to each of those characters that we love, that she didn't want to expose them in that way. And maybe, the depth of their grief as well as the heights of their joy at the new world before them was simply indescribable...even for a brilliant wordsmith like JKR.

I get what people are saying by it being an abrupt ending but I think in some ways it had to end there. I mean think about what would happen when Harry wakes up; the aftermath of the war and what that would have leaded to and eventually what that would have leaded to. The question suddenly becomes were do I cut this story off. Personally I think she picked the perfect spot however abrupt it seems, this is because I think even though all of this is part of the whole story, it is a different strand of the whole thing. We could take this even further because as a matter of fact this story does not begin at it’s beginning, we are in fact introduced to a story more than half way through I would say.

If JK had taken it down that next part of the over all story I think it would have been much harder to pick the storeys cut of point and I think just as abrupt. We may not like it but it did have to end somewhere and I do thing this part of the story we were reading had ended there.

The book ended at a perfect point, because that was the end of the story about Harry which Jo had been telling.

Sure, Harry had an existence before Book 1, and obviously he lived on well after the events of DH. But the story in Jo's books has essentially been about Harry and his fight against Voldemort, starting from a time when Harry didn't even know he had an enemy called Voldemort, to Harry's ultimate defeat of LV. Harry has battled in so many ways during the seven books - against LV himself, in various guises; against LV's minions; against people in the wizarding world who didn't believe Harry or who sought to use him; even against his own friends and supporters in many ways. And of course, the "battle" of growing up, and facing Death.

That story essentially ends with Harry's defeat of Voldemort, the immediate celebrations, etc.afterwards, and then Harry slipping away, hoping he can get a sandwich and have some rest. We do not need any more, and anything else would have been superfluous.

Tomorrow is Another Day. Tomorrow is the start of a new world, a new order of things, when the all pieces have to be picked up, and the wizarding world has to be put back together again. Life will go on. But THAT is Another Story, and it is not the story Jo has been telling us.

Of course there are many matters left unresolved, like house elf slavery, the structure and organisation of the MOM, the funerals and mourning for those who've died, the gradual reconstruction of lives and families affected by the war, the 'who marries who and when', and so on. But none of those things will get resolved overnight, and again, they are not an essential part of Harry's Story. We know there will be mourning, anger and grief, retribution against those DE's who are still alive, a cleanout of the MOM, etc. We know that there are huge longer-term issues, like house elves and werewolves; attitudes to Muggles and Muggle-borns; the structure of the Wizarding justice system; the use of Dementors, etc.

Jo answered a couple of questions in the Epilogue, about the trio and their children, and she has answered more in subsequent interviews, such as telling us about Luna and Neville, and who they marry. She may or may not choose to answer more questions in the Scottish Book - it's up to her. But leaving aside the separate issue of the Epilogue, I think the main part of DH ended exactly where it needed to.

Alkari