Now that Deathly Hallows has answered many of our long anticipated questions, there is still much to be discussed with regard to the various villains and their role in the series. Which of the following characters above was the best literary villain in the series? Has any one of the characters redeemed themselves? Which of the above villains played an antaganistic role towards Harry; and what was the reason and purpose of this from a literary standpoint?

You are encouraged to compare and contrast these villains. You can choose from more then one of the options above, and you are more than welcome to pose your own questions as well. Please feel free to discuss anyone that I have inadvertently omitted.

Have fun !

Firstly, I don't consider Gilderoy a villian - he's there purely for comic value and really is a victim of his own success. I know some people are not fond of Gilderoy but I think he's a great character
Ok Four villians for me - and in order too
4 - Fenrir Greyback. He was a seriously evil character. All he cared about was killing people and blood. He made Remus what he was. He inflictsed misery on a lot of characters.
3. Dolores Umbridge. She was also very cruel. She was the DADA teacher but she refused to teach the students the pratical lessons. She made them read the text books - study the theory. Even Hermione didn't approve of that way of teaching!
2. Bellatrix Lestrange - totally evil and loopy! She tortured Frank and Alice Longbottom - and goodness know how many others - into insanity. She killed her own cousin. She was totally obssessed by Voldemort. She's my top female villian

and finally ....

1. Lord Voldemort He didn't know how to love. He killed for pleasure. He underestimated a lot of people and creatures. He's my top villian

Fantastic poll

You forgot someone: Barty Crouch Jr. Insane but charismatic, superb actor, knows what makes the people he deals with tick. Had Voldemort sent someone like him to teach at Hogwarts in DH that teacher might have been able to turn not just the Slytherins but also many students of the other Houses against Harry.

I was disappointed with Voldemort and his supporters in DH. So little sophistication, so many Evil Overlord mistakes, so much use of brute force when mind control (Imperius and Veritaserum) would have been more effective. And though Fenrir was as disgusting as in HBP, where was his pack? Had he lost all influence on them? (Was Lupin more successful than he let us know, or was Fenrir too busy threatening Borgin and Draco and lost touch with the other werewolves?) And Voldemort was so focused on getting Harry that he couldn't care what else was going on. Some very promising villains became very lame characters.

You are absolutely right; I have added him to the poll as well. I appreciate your pointing that out .

My top Villain is Voldemort, of course. He has never experienced love, and he has no understanding of it. He is Harry's protagonist, and has been ever since he heard part of the Prophecy and decided it meant Harry. All his actions subsequently, furthered the story.

Delores Umbridge is my second Villain because she is a thoroughly nasty, cruel, woman who enjoys punishment, just for the sake of causing pain on those she has control over. She was a DADA teacher , and a really bad one, who taught theory but not practical application of Defence Against the Dark Arts.

Bellatrix Lestrange is my third Villain. She was insane after her imprisonment in Azkaban, but she was morally deviant even before that. She was in love with Voldemort and accepted all his philosophy on purebloods, (which was taught in her own family) and his DE views on the wizarding world. After his disappearance, when he killed Harry's parents, Bellatrix tried to find him, and tortured the Longbotoms into insanity in an attempt to learn his whereabouts. Crucio seems to be a favorite curse of hers.

Snape, I don't consider a Villain. He plays the part of one throughout the series, and he is definitely unkind and spiteful in his treatment of Harry, but he is actually Dumbledore's man all the way through. He tries to protect Harry while he is at school even though he dislikes him, and sees his rival, James Potter, in him and not Lily Potter, the woman he loved. Snape turned against Voldemort, when he killed Lily, after promising that he wouldn't. He then played a double game of spying for Dumbledore while Voldemort thought Snape was loyal to him. He was a very brave man in this dangerous deception which he continued even after Dumbledore's death. He stayed true to his promises, and thus redeemed himself. The love he had for Lily, and his sorrow for her death was always with him, and he kept his promise to protect Harry to the end.

This is truly a very difficult and awesome poll !

I'm hard put to it to make just a few choices. Leaving aside the usual Voldemort, Greyback, Bellatrix and Umbridge; not that I don't think they are horrible, it's just that I can't seem to think of anything to add to reasonings of the posters before me; I'll go for Peter Pettigrew.

Peter Pettigrew, to me, represents the worst thing a person could posibly become. Yes, even worse than Voldemort. Pettigrew became a traitor who betrayed the people who thought him to be a true friend and trusted him with their lives. Voldemort may have done the actual deed, but Pettigrew has as much share in the killing of James and Lily as if he had used the Avada Kedavra on them personally.

Pettigrew did not even have the dedication that Barty Crouch Jr. or Bellatrix had - not that dedication makes their actions any less heinous - but they show some good qualities even though they use it in the service of evil ends. Pettigrew betrayed those who believed that in trusting him, they had nothing to worry and thus fell victims to their misplaced trust in a rat who saw nothing wrong or reprehensible in giving up his friends just to save his own skin.

Peter Pettigrew did not stop at causing the death of Lily and James, he proceeded to take advantage of the fact that no one knew who the real secret-keeper was and adroitly framed Sirius - another friend who trusted him, for the horrible crimes. IMO Voldemort's bursting into the Potters' house and killing them doesn't rank anywhere near to Pettigrew's actions on a scale of utter despicability.

Pettigrew was a person who had no love for anyone except himself and went about his pathetic life ensuring that he got safety and security, no matter how many dead bodies he left on the way. Voldemort had the correct measure of him when he said Wormtail returned to him out of cowardice and not loyalty. He returned not because of his devotion to Voldemort, but because of fear of his one-time friends who he knew would kill him on sight if they ever saw him again and felt he would be better off with the protection of the biggest bully around - which according to him was Voldemort.

IMO, Pettigrew was the one who was the perpetrator of the most ghastly sin ever - that of betraying a friend's trust. I can never ever forgive him for what he did to James, Lily, Sirius, Remus and Harry. Everything every other villain did pales in comparison with that unspeakable rat's actions in killing the trust his friends had placed in him and thereby, killing his friends themselves.

This was easy. First Voldemort :there are so many reasons and you all know them and second Fenrir Grayback : he was attacking little children with no reason, turning them into werevolfs.

Excellent topic!! one of the most interesting toipics I've ever come across!!

I voted for Lucius . He had the whole personality of a loathsome, stone-cold, evil villian. He's double-faced, he's calculative, cruel and s . He's also had a key role to play in the books obviously. Apart from that .... he sets an evil atmosphere. His is a very interesting character, from the literary point of view and even otherwise.

Of course LV is also a 'very, very good' villian, even from the literary point of view but Lucius surpasses LV in the 'all rounder' category. Being villanous is not all about committing stone cold murders. Lucius' actions make you go 'aaaaaaah' in some cases. His sly, evil ways of going about things .... his personality, in the end, is what makes his such a detestable villian; a good literary villian.

rowena ... I was impressed by your analysis of Pettigrew, though Peter always struk me as a charcter forced into the evil catgory by his weak response to situations, rather than his own thinking and will.

I'm with Rowena 100%. All of the major villains mentioned were sociopaths who acted in character. They did what you would expect sociopaths to do. But Wormtail was a traitor. He betrayed those who had befriended him and helped him all through school. His actions were clearly the most despicable. And it was a great literary twist that throughout PoA we suspected Sirius and it was Peter all along. And then it was Peter that managed to help Voldemort regenerate a new body. This guy is truly evil.

3. Dolorus Umbridge - overly sweetly evil
2. Bellatrix Lestrange - she's like a female Voldemort
3. Voldemort - for obvious reasons!

Umbridge is also a manipulator (like Voldemort) so it was hard to choose between 2nd and 3rd but Bellatrix has killed to many lovable characters!! poor Dobby

1- Umbridge
2- Fenrir Greyback
3- Voldemort

The only reason I have Voldemort ranked so low is because we all (or some of use atleast) felt sorry for him atleast once in the series)

Thinking in terms of literary villains, these were my votes:

3-Draco-perfect villain-y foil to Harry, both inside Hogwarts and out.
2-Umbridge-horrible, vile woman; too much love for power, wherever it might be found; and the worst crime: showing up at Dumbledore's funeral. Harrumph.
1-Riddle/Voldemort-egomaniacal, no love, etc. (I cannot forget the woman and her children that he murdered whilst searching for Grindelwald...or the Inferi in the cave.)

rowena's examination of Pettigrew-as-villain is convincing, too; he definitely was a "bad person," and would probably be in my top 5 least favorite characters. However, it almost seems like giving him too much due, to consider him a Villain; to me, he's just a tremendous coward, re-acting instead of acting (as Smartaps_2 mentioned).

I was also disappointed by LV in DH.

Both Umbridge and Greyback, are purer villains for me. At least LV had a purpose to his evil

This is gonna sound crazy but...LV never seemed sinister enough for me, and by Deathly Hallows, he was making stupid mistakes and I couldn't hate him as much as my other choices. Probably because his feelings are not exactly diverse: rage! rage! anger! murderous rage!

Bellatrix...that girl was BAAAAD. Deliciously bad. I loved to hate her. Well-written on Jo's part; she has that insane homicidal chick down pat!

Umbridge...Dolores was so sickening. She was the one character that I wanted to step into the books and kick. I was thoroughly invested in her downfall.

Barty Crouch is more a complex case, because I feel like he went bad in so many ways and he really wasted something he might have had. He would have made a better Dark Lord than LV, more subtle, more controlling, more convincing. He knew what he was doing, and he was doing it well.

First of all, kudos to the wonderful replies !!


Rowena, you have me convinced too. That was a wonderful post about Peter and I agree with everything that you have eloquently outlined. He was the "villain" we never even considered until PoA. He spent 12 years as a rat; and a rat he truly was. Handing the Potters over for certain death when he was such a trusted and loved friend is certainly despicable in my book. And Peter should have counted his lucky stars a thousand times over that Harry was such a good person to have let him go free and back to his master. Peter showed his villainous side again when he helped capture Harry and callously took his blood for Voldemort's resurrection potion. It is true that he showed one moment of an iota of mercy; but did he really; I am curious to know what other readers think about this. And did Peter really understand what he had done during his life and how many people died because of his actions?

I don't think your sentiments as well as others to the same effect sounds crazy at all, stellasofia. I too had a similar feeling at the end of DH. His mistakes however; have a lot to do with his misunderstanding or lack there of, of a very effective, pure and powerful emotion called love. He is portrayed as someone who was never loved and who seemingly lacks the capacity to love. Even though canon shows us that Tom had admirers; he had followers and he was respected by his teachers, in my opinion, that's not really love and I don't believe LV even saw these outward expressions as remotely associated with love or anything good. The only thing LV ever cherished was power and power alone. In order to attain that power; even an evil genius such as Voldemort would have made mistakes; and very costly ones; which we ultimately see him do. We see LV as having torn his soul so much that in the end he just wasn't human enough to be the villain he attained to be; therefore; he was never able to attain that level of power he so desperately hoped to garner for himself.

I agree that she was a most vile woman, sver/nor. Her cruelty, narcissism, prejudice and horrible treatment of the Hogwarts students was just more than villainous; it was inhumane in my opinion.

I had great difficulty choosing! I have to agree with Rowena, Peter Pettigrew is a top villian. There is very little worse than betrayal, especially betrayal that results in death. Betraying your friends to their worst enemy, an enemy out to kill them, is a horrible, unforgivable thing to do!

I also choose Draco and LV. LV was the villian of the series. He was the being Harry was out to defeat, and defeat he did! In some ways they were opposites, but in others they were very much alike. For that reason I also choose Draco. StepinTime already said it, but Draco was there to foil Harry at every turn. They are also complete opposites in looks, life, and attitude.

Well, i voted for Gilderoy. He managed to keep his façade of Vanquisher of the dark arts for a really long time.

Concerning Peter, without his betrayal... Harry would've never been marked so Voldemort would've never falled.

I never knew people actually consider Lockhart to be among the villains.

I wouldn't rank him up there with LV or the DEs, but he did try to wipe out Harry's and Ron's memories and then take credit for killing the basilisk while leaving poor Ginny to her fate. Granted they had forced him at wand point to try and rescue her....but still. I think he's more along the lines of Mundungus.

I voted for Umbridge because she was the character I disliked the most. LV and some others are arguably much more evil or destructive than Umbridge, but she's written so well that I loved loathing her.

well, i was forced to vote for You Know Who because he was the villian, the antagonist, the catalyst for all other villians {except Umbridge who was her own brand of evil}...In Voldemort, JKR did create a true literary villian, and i loved seeing him in all of his many forms, but i was surprised that Riddle/LV was even listed since that seems so obvious.... i don't know how we can feel sorry for him when he made his decisions with complete malevolence. There are other orphans and abused characters who didn't grow up to lead the Death Eaters and wage an evil war on mankind. [really- what was his prob? ]
I protest Snape being on the list. He is not a villian and in the same vein, Draco really isn't either tho he is a great foil for Harry and definitely the perfect peer rival... but really ?evil?.. idk... maybe jealous and petty, definitely a spoiled brat [sort of the wizard version of Dudley] but also a victim of sorts. He was raised by Death Eaters; he didn't seem to think for himself often, which makes him rather pathetic. In fact, most of the time he's just a bully, who makes up stupid jokes and songs just to get some attention.
I think Gilderoy was the best comic foil and i agree with the assessment about Pettigrew's betrayal... after all, according to Dante there is a special place in he*ll for betrayers

I voted for LV for overall best villian. But, I must say that Delores Umbridge, scares the pants off of me because she seems like someone who really exist with her child abuse methods.

Well,I just finished DH again..I must agree with most of the comments. I voted for Dolores Umbridge. LV had control over the majority of everything and DU didn't care who was at the head as long as she was next in line to resume her malicious tactics on the rest of the wizarding world. I was upset to see how she with no preamble put moody's eye to work for her and that's why I voted for her.




HAPPY 4TH EVERYONE

I had to go with the Big V himself, of course. We found out the most about what made him tick. He was seriously twisted. He split his soul into 7, sending him into a realm of evil that no one had entered before. I do agree that he made some stupid mistakes, but if he hadn't made those, Harry wouldn't have won.

I loved Bella as a villain. Probably my fave, to be honest (though I voted for Voldemort since he IS the main villain). If Voldemort had ever loved (which we know is impossible, since then he wouldn't be Voldemort), I'd hate to see the dream team that he and Bellatrix made. And the children they would have together. 0.o

Umbridge was the character I hated most in the series, simply because she was written so despicably. JKR should have shown her death (or at least punishment) in the series at the end of DH! I doubt I'm the only one who would have wanted to see it.

I went with Umbridge...to me, and IMHO, evil that is masked by sweetness is, by far, the worst sort. It's the type that draws you in, decieves you and won't let go. She was disgustingly sweet, she looked disgustingly sweet...she was a vile, evil woman...and, again IMHO, she deserved what she got. Great poll, also!

i found it hard to choose this is why.....

Tom Riddle/Voldemort ---> the ultimate villain comletely had to die in the end lol

Fenrir Greyback ---> revolting character probably more of a 'baddy' for younger kids who can be scared of the evil werewolf

Peter Pettigrew ---> betrayed his friend which was completely unforgiveable but then did show remorse later on

Dolores Umbridge ---> i wouldn't call her 'evil' exactly just rather deluded and two-faced but then again her sweet act is very decieving

Severus Snape ---> aww i love him why did he have to die he wasnt bad he was jealous & heartbroken because of lily and james potter

Lucius Malfoy ---> he's a bit of a suck up to voldermort also a coward

Draco Malfoy ---> just a stupid frightened little boy

Narcissa Malfoy --> like her husband she did help harry in the end though by lying that he was dead

Gilderoy Lockheart ---> clever fraud not evil though

Gellert Grindewald ---> 'nicer' and older version of voldermort lol

Bellatrix Lestrange ---> evillll woman not only murders people but plays with them first

The Carrows ---> nasty and stupid

Barty Crouch Jr. ---> clever and scary but mostly just seems mentally disturbed

I have not voted yet, however I believe I would place Voldemort quite high up on my list. He was, of course, horrible and evil and such, and he certainly was a good villain to the series. He killed people to get what he wanted, and sometimes because he felt like it. He was also, if I could describe it this way.. seemed to be somewhat blind to certain things. I felt that way in DH anyways, just things like love and such, and overseeing the true master of the elder wand. This made me look at him as someone who was overlooking the smaller details and going straight for gold, in Voldemort's case, killing Harry Potter and taking over. This I think was ultimately his downfall and was what allowed Harry to take the upper hand.

I have to say, no matter how evil she was, Bellatrix was a favourite of mine. I think probably because she was also written so well (along with the whole story, haha!) she just seemed to lure you in as this crazy, killer and she was a very good, yet evil, character in the story.

And Umbridge, well she's just one big bitch. There were no nice qualities about her in my opinion.

Lord Voldemort - because he was a horrible human being, who killed people for no good reason and simply because he could. he cared for no one apart from himslef and thought he was above everyone else. he was a hypocrite, as he went on and on about blood purity when his own dad was a muggle. he made many people suffer for a stupid reason such as blood. and he tried to kill a teenage boy for 7 years which is so pathetic and horrible.

Bellatrix Lestrange - because she left nevilles parents in a state worse than death.

Dolores Umbridge - because she was a nasty piece of work and treated people like dirt.

i chose snape because although he isnt nessecarily a villain after DH, that is the literary genius of it all. you spend 6+ books thinking he is evil, then you see that he wasnt a villian at all. i also picked voldy because well he is VOLDEMORT, he is kinda the biggest, most complex villain in entertainment history

The most contemptible villian is Dolores Umbridge. I found myself wanting to jump into the books and wring her neck more than any other character, Voldemort, included. The thing is she is just plain nasty in a small-minded sort of way. She believes in nothing, save her own ambition within the Ministry. She uses 'the rules' for expedience sake rather like the petty burocrat she is at heart; and covers up her viciousness with a veneer of sickly sweetness. Have we not all met her ilk in some form in our everyday Muggle world? That's why she is such a successful character because she offers a focus for all the frustrations we feel when faced with unthinking, pointless and arbitary authority.

Peter Pettigrew as the name suggests is another rather small-minded character ie. not writ large but small. He, like Umbridge, is also contemptible but also pitiful. Yet we can understand what motivates him; and I believe that James and more especially Sirius's ill-disguised sneaking contempt for him going back to schooldays may have been partly responsible for his later betrayal. It doesn't excuse his actions but it does explain them. He's the runt of the litter, the archetypal follower, desperate to be accepted fully yet only ever achieving a kind of grudging acceptance - pathetic but also rather sad.

Voldemort - evil, but grandly so. There is something tragic about him or at least as Tom Riddle. I hate all he becomes but I also feel that in his case there is a terrible sense of waste of a life whose native talents may have made him great ie. perhaps a great Unspeakable - in Muggle terms, perhaps a great scientist or philosopher. There is a fine tipping point between the true seeker after knowledge wishing to penetrate life's mysteries, (and what is more mysterious than the nature of death and conversely of life?) and the arrogance of those who seek to control life and its source out of an obssession to attain to a greatness that necessarily entails, at least metaphorically speaking, a 'pact with the Devil'

Bellatrix - a fanatical cult follower. An inverted saint, willing to martyr herself to a perverse vision of glory. A villian, sure but unlike Umbridge - a villian with a cause to which she is steadfastly loyal. Ditto Barty Crouch Jnr.

Lucius Malfoy - He is like the German aristocrats and industrialists who went along with Hitler, perhaps always slightly despising him for his petty bourgeois origins, while it suited their purposes. Loves to bully those in a weaker position to himself, happy to sacrifice their dignity and prostrate themselves before the Great Power if it serves their ends; yet without any real conviction save to preserve their status and prestige.

Severus Snape - the embittered outcast who sees the light but has never quite forgiven those who have always seen it. Arguably, the series most complex and truly tragic figure - a man who ultimately followed his nobler instincts but not without the need to spit out venom at others even while doing so.

For me the villian in a story would be the hero's ultimate rival, the leader of the bad guys, so I therefore choose Voldemort (quite obvious choice )

I see many others have chosen Bellatrix and Umbridge, and although they are both terrible people, and definately would be considered one of the 'bad guys', I wouldn't say they are the villians in the story

Of course Voldemort, he like one of the main char of the book, but i can say Gellert to was a feard villain, even if the books dont tell lots of things about him, remeber what Dumbledore said and Krum, in his country he was very feard , like Voldemort in Britan. And hes plots were big to. So it's Voldemort and Gellert

I think it has to be Voldemort....although I was tempted by Bellatrix. She liked cusing pain just for the sake of it-that is pretty villianous, as she wasn't doing it to serve herself a higher purpose.

I would say "Tom Riddle", rather than Voldemort. By the time he is known as Voldemort, he is already "obviously" evil. The young Tom Riddle, still "keeping up appearances" - as we meet him through the Diary in CoS - is more intriguing...

for me it has to be bellatrix lestrange. i found her complex mind very interesting to read and thought she was a great character.. her story lines were always brilliantly written and she played an amazing part in DH.
she is one of my overall favourite characters in the series.
Her feeling and adoration of Voldermort and all he stood for made reading about her compelling, and although voldemort was also a compelling character, i thought that there was a true mystery about her that didnt need7 books to uncover it was just there, such an obviously complex character yet brilliantly written by Jo. The fact that bellatrix was so ruthless and the fact that you didnt know what she was going to do next, worked well as well.

second voldy

third tom riddle

fourth umbridge

The best villain has to be Tom Riddle/Voldemort because of all the backstory into his past that we have gotten. Tom just had that malicious sweet on the outside evil on the outside sort of charm when he was at Hogwarts, and he fooled everyone(except dumbledore) into thinking Hagrid opened the chamber and even got a reward for it while he was making a horcrux behind their backs.

I also think how his story relates with Harry's increases his villainary because we see them both having the same sort of terrible upbringing, yet Harry is able to end up being a caring person while tom falls into darkness, Tom could have turned his life around at Hogwarts yet all he did was turn into an evil being.

I also think that Umbridge is a very close second because she also has that false sweetness on the outside while she is flooded with evil in the inside and her idea of muggleborns stealing magic also ranked high on the villainary scale for me,

Voldemort: His story & disturbed childhood is so good.
Umbridge: You love to read about her, however evil she is!!
Bellatrix: Scares me more than anyone else in the books!

Just been reading the chapter in HBP when DD dies, and the conversation he has with greyback.

Greyback is evil to the core too.

I voted Umbridge for the reasons that everyone else has already put much better than I ever could. I'll just go with saying she was such an utterly detestable character.

I also agree with the people who said that they were disappointed by Voldemort. He made some really dumb mistakes and was just such a shallow character. I personally preffer tragic villains who became evil because they were downtrodden by society and lost faith in mankind and started hating everyone...but I suppose that's irrelevant. My point is I never found Voldemort scary because he was just so unrealistic. Also there were some parts of the book which made me go O.o?? This is the "evil genious" everyone is so terrified of?

Also, I might get shot for this, but sometimes I wonder if, in a way, James and Lily got what was coming to them when they got betrayed by Peter Pettigrew. At first I remember really hating Pettigrew because it's really disgusting to betray your friends like that, but then I re-read the fifth book and I started wondering how great friends they actually were. Pettigrew really admired james, and probably Sirius too, but they seemed to think rather lowly of him and mocked him a lot. He was the friend that they could always and be sure of beating, and while they kept him around for entertainment, he was never really one of the smart, cool kids. They probably always thought they were better than him, and always just expected him to take the snide comment that they (particularly Sirius) dished out. (not so much Lupin though. He probably just stayed silent)

I wonder if it was arrogance or just naivety on Jame's part to think that Pettigrew would be so in awe of him that he would want to protect him, even though Pettigrew felt he was never really appreciated, and considered worthless. I can just imagine Voldemort discovering that Pettigrew became secret keeper, and asking him about it. Pettigrew is just about to defy him when he suddenly remembers a bunch of mean stuff James and Sirius had said to him as a joke when they were younger, and he laughed along with it, not letting them see how much it had cut him inside. I think this is where he realises that he doesn't want to die for these people, who were convinced he would always be so in love with them, despite them treating him like dirt. James just assumed they were best friends, without bothering to inquire how some of his mean jokes had made Pettigrew feel, whether he had intended it or not. Pettigrew just wanted to live, and they didn't really mean that much to him anyway, so....

It was a despicable thing to do, but James and Sirius should have been more aware of their "friend's" feelings.

Even if James "got what was coming to him" (which I don't agree with at all on any level but thats just my opinion) then how does that justify what he did to Lily, whom we have never seen him interact with, or what he would have done to a defenceless baby?

Voldemort's mistakes are what makes him a realistic character and villian. Character flaws are what makes a character realistic, since in reality nobody's perfect. His flaws of arrogance and overly elaborate plans made him more realistic, if Voldemort was a perfect villian who won every battle and never made mistakes it wouldn't be reality, no villian in history was ever perfect, they all have had their flaws.

Well yeah, that was a terrible thing to do. All I'm saying is what he did isn't quite as bad as betraying your best friend, his wife and his child. It's betraying someone he doesn't really like, his wife and his child. While betrayal of trust like that is disgusting on any level, Pettigrew was sorted into Gryffindor, so I wonder if he would have saved James and his family if he had actually liked them. Just to clarify, I really don't like Pettigrew, I just figured someone should chuck up the other side of the arguement and look at his motives. It's not easy to just give your own life, and if he felt that James, Lily and Harry had never done anything for him, why should he? As someone mentioned previously, I never saw Pettigrew as a villain, just a horrible coward looking to save his own skin.




True, but Voldemort seemed to me at times like a sort of 2D cartoon villain, making obvious mistakes that villains of his stature and reputation really shouldn't be making. I just expected more from him.

What kind of obvious mistakes are you talking about it?

Did Pettigrew actually ever say that he didn't like James? I always thought that he sort of looked up to him and admired him until he found a bigger bully(Voldemort) to hide under.

I agree. Pettigrew was perfectly happy to reap the benefits of a friendship with sirius and james, but not to make any of the sacrifices that came with it.

Hmm, well I guess that the only explanation I could think of for Pettigrew to be in Gryffindor and still have betrayed James was if he didn't feel any loyalty towards him. It was all just speculation really. My bad. Is there perhaps some other thread which clears up Pettigrew's betrayal, or explains why he was sorted into Gryffindor when he appears to be such a horrible coward?

We have threads on Pettigrew in several different forums. Here are a few you might be interested in.

Peter Pettigrew: true Gryffindor?

Peter Pettigrew: how did he fool them all?

Pettigrew: The Despicable Marauder

Pleione
LL Moderator

Thank you! ^.^

Voldemort, of course.. And I mean it both in his handsome Tom Riddle form as well as the snake-like Dark Lord. And not because I think he is the ultimate evil, but because he is such a complex character. The fact that he had such a tragic childhood, then turned to evil and then was defeated and condemned to the wretched existence as this flayed splinter of a soul is just endlessly sad.. But his ambition, his excellence at magic and his incredible intelligence also make him irresistibly fascinating. I just long for a better ending for him.

I would have to go with Snape. It doesn't matter that he didn't know who the prophecy would kill. SOME baby and its family was going to die if he took the prophecy to Voldemort, which he eagerly did. I think that is equally as evil and bad as what Pettigrew did. So what he knew who it was? Death is death. On a personal level one can perhaps say it is worse, but in terms of murder, it is entirely equal. In addition, Snape was a cruel kid, and went on to be a very cruel adult - even when he changed sides. I would agree that some of the other Death Eaters were likely equally villainious, including Voldemort and Bella of course, but the thing is, we didn't see their antics - we saw much more of Snape's. So he was defintely the best villain portrayed in the series. It begs the question: can a villain be on the good side? I say yes; if they bully children, torment their peers and show grave disrespect for the dead and the living who love them. So to me, Snape gets the prize.

I was surprised to find that my picks were not some of the more popular picks for villains. The most effective villains for me are characters who I can't read easily. If they are too obviously terrible, they lack a degree of interest for me - I may love to hate them, but I find them more stereotypical.

I chose Snape and Draco, particularly because there were aspects of both characters that were sympathetic and not sympathetic. Both characters seem to begin the series as pretty clear cut villains but as the series moves into the last few books, you see more of the pressures at work on them - we see things that give us a measure of sympathy for them. Although this can be said to some degree for most of the characters on the list, I find Snape and Draco the most complex of the group. We want to hate them, but we find ourselves feeling sorry for them at times too.

For me, the richness of a good villain is his complexity, rather than the degree of his malice and evil deeds. In a way Draco and Snape are two sides of a similar Slytherin coin. Snape is the poor, brilliant and loyal wizard who harbors a good deal of malice and behaves in an imperious fashion toward the students and teachers alike. He resents the world too much, but his heart is true. He is very flawed, but more interesting because of his flaws. He defends the students and protects them, but he is abrasive and abusive with them too. He is the butt of Dumbledore's jokes on occasion, he is the victim of James' arrogance and cruelty, but he is a also brooding and vindictive temperament. We spend 6 3/4 of the books trying to determine whether he is a villian or a hero. But isn't he really both? This complexity really appeals to me as a reader. I find it endlessly fascinating.

Draco never really redeems himself to any great degree, but he does seem to be a product of his very unfortunate lineage. Draco is also a talented student, it seems, but since the series is often told from the point of view of Harry, Draco is painted in very dark tones. He is rich and talented but also arrogant - and like his father he is a bully. Harry hates him until at least book 6, then he does begin to see the dilemma Draco is in. Draco has had to live up to Lucius' dark deeds and influence. He obviously loves his mother and father, and seems to share some of their negative qualities - arrogance and interest in the dark arts. But with Draco we also see how Lucius surely contributed to Draco's attitudes and personality. He is always trying to live up to Harry's magical talent and Hermione's intellect under the critical eye of his father. Draco does seem to be the most talented Slytherin in his class. He is a favorite of Snape's. He also thought up a means to bring the Death Eater's into the school, which was pretty clever. But like everyone in Harry's class, Draco can't ever be as good - as a seeker, at grades, at defense against the dark arts, or at being Dumbledore's favorite. Draco begins by being driven by his father's influence then later by his love of his family and by Voldemort's threat to kill them. With Draco I always hoped he would redeem himself...and I found that more interesting than the villains who you know will simply go on being as evil as possible (Voldemort, Lucius, Bellatrix, Fenrir come to mind in particular).

One thing I have to add, even though its not part of the books, I think that the film characters do influence most of us in terms of our feelings for the characters. I saw the first movie before I read any of the books, so for me its hard not to see Alan Rickman and Tom Felton when I read the books. There is something charismatic and sympathetic about both characters in a way, partly because of their portrayal.

But in the end, if I had to choose just one, it would be Snape.

Another one I might add to the list, is Kreacher.