Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Poll: Mentors throughout the Harry Potter series.
Harry Potter discussion forum for movies, books, and more! - The Leaky Lounge > HP-Related Discussion: Diagon Alley > HP Book Discussion: Flourish and Blotts > Academic Analysis: Obscurus Books
lirene
During the HP series we have been introduced to many characters who were mentors to Harry. Who do you think was Harry's greatest mentor from a literary standpoint and how would you describe how this person shaped Harry's life. How important were mentors for Harry's overall character development? Do you think Harry actively sought out a mentor because of his difficult childhood, or are there other reasons?

Out of all of the characters that could be considered a mentor for Harry, what are the good and bad aspects of each one; and were they a positive or negative influence on Harry? Does Rowling convince readers that mentors are important to the overall plot line or does she fail to do so?

You may chose from more than one of the options given above, and discuss other characters not included in the poll that you feel would bring new perspectives to the discussion.

The questions given above are food for thought if you will. You are more than welcome to discuss mentors as far as other characters in the series are concerned as well; and not just those who were mentors for Harry. Please feel free to ask your own questions as well.

Have fun
smile.gif .
Moose_Starr
This is a really tough question unsure.gif Probably the greatest mentor to Harry was Dumbledore because he prepared Harry for his confrontation(s) with LV, he taught him practical skills and knowledge of Ancient Magic, he showed him different aspects of the wizarding world and imparted his wisdom, he guided him *spiritually* and gave him strength of mind and personality.
But, all of Harry's mentors played an important role in making Harry who he is. Hagrid was a friend he could confide in, Moody taught him constant vigilence, Sirius and Molly taught him family, Lupin taught him powerful magic, to find his own courage and acceptance of *differences*, Fred & George (who arent listed) and Ron & Hermione to some degree taught him independance from the oppression the Dursleys had forced on him, allowing him free-thinking and not just a blind obedience of *rules*.
Hatun punchaw
Severus Snape... also unlisted. surprise.gif

As a consequence of the effect of a well timed seed of poet's jasmine i come up with more.

I'm quite surprised on having Severus unlisted. From mentor i understand a person who is a teacher and educator, who challenges his/her students to achieve goals and raise in personal growth.
Ferdinand Magellan
Probably Dumbledore-especially in DH Harry said to aberforth,"ur brother never would hve done it" or something like that. there are other examples I don't remember.


James- POA Harry doesn't want Sirius and Lupin to kill Peter because he didnt think his dad would have wanted them to be killers.


None of the other choices seemed probable.
Oxymoronic
Well, if you had to choose only one, the obvious choice would be Dumbledore. He was guiding Harry ever since he was a baby, whether Harry knew it or not (and I believe Harry did in fact know he was being, um, lead by Dumbledore...at least on some level).

But Harry had a variety of mentors throughout the story, including Sirius, Mr. Weasley, Minerva, and most definitely Lupin. I don't think Harry purposefully set out to find these mentors -- difficult childhood or no. Because of the extraordinary circumstances surrounding Harry (Chosen One, Boy Who Lived) people were drawn to him for one reason or another, and clearly wanted a hand in helping him out and protecting him.

Even Snape, although for different reasons, concentrated his efforts on keeping Harry safe. I'm not quite sure that Rowling set out to highlight the importance of mentors throughout the series, but Harry benefited in a huge way from the guidance and support of his elders (for lack of a better word), and there's no denying that without their help, his quest would've been much, much more difficult (see virtually impossible).
lirene
QUOTE(Hatun punchaw @ Jun 3 2008, 04:07 PM) *
I'm quite surprised on having Severus unlisted. From mentor i understand a person who is a teacher and educator, who challenges his/her students to achieve goals and raise in personal growth.

*Puts Modly Hat On*

Hatun; In every poll we add the option "other" so that other people can come up with suggestions of their own instead of having all the options given to them. I didn't include many characters intentionally; not because I don't feel that they couldn't have been mentors to Harry; but so that people such as yourself don't feel restricted by the options given in the poll smile.gif .

*Takes Modly Hat Off*

Snape's role in Harry's life to me as a reader wasn't really intended to be in a mentor capacity; although there are readers who believe the opposite to be true. As Oxymoronic states below; his task set forth by Dumbledore was to protect Harry. And I don't really know if Harry himself saw Snape as a mentor; but he certainly played a huge role in Harry's life.
QUOTE(Oxymoronic @ Jun 3 2008, 04:52 PM) *
Even Snape, although for different reasons, concentrated his efforts on keeping Harry safe. I'm not quite sure that Rowling set out to highlight the importance of mentors throughout the series, but Harry benefited in a huge way from the guidance and support of his elders (for lack of a better word), and there's no denying that without their help, his quest would've been much, much more difficult (see virtually impossible).

You mention quite a bit of characters that certainly were mentors to Harry; however, as a reader, I feel that mentors as a theme in the HP series is quite pronounced; even if that wasn't necessarily Rowling's intention. Harry grew up essentially alone with the Dursleys. He really didn't have anyone to look up to, or to guide him. So whether or not Harry was subconsciously seeking a mentor is surely food for thought. However, I certainly agree that Harry's mission would have been so much more difficult if he had to go at it alone.
harrypottergeek2
The one that stood out the most (IMO) was DD. He had so many ways of teaching Harry things that were not only important academically, but also intellectually and spiritually.

However, that's not to say that DD was the only character that was teaching Harry life lessons. Arthur exemplified what it means to be a kind, loving father; Jo herself said that one could argue that Arthur is the only good father figure in the series.

Sirius (once he cleared his name in Harry's eyes) was also a source of wisdom and intellect, and was the closest thing Harry ever had to a father. One could argue that Harry saw Sirius as his closest mentor.

Although he wasn't really a mentor for Harry in particular, Alastor was a great mentor to everyone in the Order and/or in the Auror department (particularily with Tonks).

QUOTE(Hatun punchaw @ Jun 3 2008, 04:07 PM) *
I'm quite surprised on having Severus unlisted. From mentor i understand a person who is a teacher and educator, who challenges his/her students to achieve goals and raise in personal growth.


I agree with your view of what a mentor is, but I somewhat disagree with how well it applies to Severus. Yes, he had the ability to impart intellectual wisdom on others, and at times he was able to present acceptable challenges to those he was trying to impart his knowledge/wisdom onto, but in general, Severus wasn't really known well for the latter. Look at the way he treats any student who's not in Slytherin - especially Neville and Harry. He seems to expect students to do well, but he over-challenges some (arguably most) of his students to the point where the challenges defeat their purpose.

Any objective outsider would see Snape as a bad influence (i.e. one who's footsteps should not be followed), and this, IMO, is something you should never see in a good mentor (at least not to this extreme - everyone has their faults, but some faults are more definitive in a negative way, and that should not be an issue for a good mentor).
Ex Libres Cogito
3 Mentors. My own mentor definition: One who causes another to learn, and who one chooses as such(?).

1. Ronald Weasley.

2. Hermione Granger Weasley.

3. Giny Weasley Potter.

Others to a lesser level.

Why these 3? A true mentor is not necessarily employed to be one. And so to the shaping and framing of Harry's life. Ron tells Harry exactly the way things are (even if Ron's way off base), hence the well heard, and rehearsed "Thanks, Ron." Hermione can instinctively slow Harry down enough to think his situations through; she fosters good study habits; and she has remarkable moral fiber. And only Giny can pull on Harry's heart strings to give him "Something worth fighting for" (OotP WB).

edit to remove quote.
wickedboy
Hagrid at first, then Dumbledore and Hagrid kind of fell off (but still loved), and then Sirius, then Remus then the three died. Harry's parents were more like "father figures", however, in the end, I could include his father because everyone always said he thought or had done something like his dad and later Harry started making comments about how he'd stand up to Voldemort like his dad and never bow and planned to do other stuff like him then in Deathly Hallows he asked himself what his father might do in a situation he was in. So I see his dad as a mentor, not his mum so much, but if he thought of her that way, then she would be also. That I guess would be based on what he knew of them and what he subconsciously recalled from a baby. JKR said Dumbledore, Sirius, Remus, James and Lily were his father figures, so I suppose he saw them as mentors too.

I might add Molly and Arthur since he spent so much time with them and they were the type of people that Harry respected, loved and would want to emulate. The rest didn't serve as mentors. Snape did not serve as a mentor because Harry never saw him that way, even in the Epilogue and I wouldn't put McGonagall or Slughorn in there because I think Harry respected them, but I don't think he wanted to emulate them and he didn't love them as he did his mentors and Molly and Arthur. He respected and even felt kindly toward others like Kingsley, Moody, Tonks and more, but I don't think they served as mentors for him.
Dora87
I think Harry had many mentors, because he was always ready to learn something from others. He was humble, he knew he needed help from others.

QUOTE(Ex Libres Cogito)
My own mentor definition: One who causes another to learn, and who one chooses as such


It's a nice definition, I think choice is a relevant factor when we speak of mentors. After all, we can always decide whom we want to follow.

That's why I don't think Snape was a mentor for Harry, at least before The Prince's Tale: Harry simply didn't want him to be such (for example, when he refused to take his Occlumency lessons seriously)

Ex Libres Cogito, I agree with you when you say friends can be mentors. In Harry's case they surely were, because he cared for them, he valued what they told him, he understood the importance of their presence in his life and he grew up with them.

However, I think there were also other people Harry considered to be mentors (and, ironically, he ended up "going beyond them" and being himself a mentor for almost all of them):

- Albus Dumbledore. Well, this is quite obvious. He was Harry's guide through it all, and Harry recognised him as such.

- Remus Lupin. Harry held him in a very high esteem as a person and as a teacher, and this is demonstrated by Harry's disappointment when he heard Remus say he wanted to follow the Trio instead of staying with his family.

- James Potter and Sirius Black (Sirius was the only remaining connection to Harry's family, which James' memory embodied)

- Molly and Arthur. Though I don't know if Harry was aware of this, I think they embodied his need and his idea of family.
momwitch
I'm thinking that there might be more of a distinguishing characteristic between being a mentor and hero. I see a mentor as having a personal relationship with the mentee ( is that the right word for this?) while a "hero" can extend to be more of an abstract representation of certain ideals. To me, though they were his parents, James and Lily were more heroes to Harry, since he had no conscious memory of them in his life. In turn, Harry wasn't as much a mentor to the Wizarding World, but a hero figure - because he represented an ideal for a lot of people, yet being human, could only have a certain number of meaningful relationships which had mentor potential.

I think Harry's most significant mentors were Dumbledore (primarily), Hagrid and Lupin. Sirius is more of a hero type for Harry (to me), since his interaction with him was limited, and he seemed to treat him as more an extension of James and didn't know Harry as Harry alone. This doesn't mean that Harry didn't learn from Sirius, but a lot of Sirius was still arrested in that time before he went to Azkaban. Sirius didn't seem to grow and truly move on from that experience, he stagnated - and mentoring implies that a certain amount of growth is accomplished in both the student and teacher. biggrin.gif
harrypottergeek2
QUOTE(momwitch @ Jun 5 2008, 04:16 PM) *
I'm thinking that there might be more of a distinguishing characteristic between being a mentor and hero. I see a mentor as having a personal relationship with the mentee ( is that the right word for this?) while a "hero" can extend to be more of an abstract representation of certain ideals.
...
I think Harry's most significant mentors were Dumbledore (primarily), Hagrid and Lupin. Sirius is more of a hero type for Harry (to me), since his interaction with him was limited, and he seemed to treat him as more an extension of James and didn't know Harry as Harry alone.


Well, I agree with your distinction between a mentor and a hero (or a role model), but IMO, Sirius still qualifies as a mentor. His relationship with Harry was very personable - they frequently communicated via owls and fireplaces, and they had a reasonably close relationship when they were under the same roof. Remember, Harry wrote to Sirius for advice (not just with regards to his scar, but for the Tournament and the goings-on outside of Hogwarts), not just for a friendly exchange of news. I think you raise a good point about Sirius not seeing Harry just as Harry, but I don't see that as taking away from his role as a mentor - you can still be a mentor to a best friend!
momwitch
Hmmm...I think I see what you're saying HPG2, but I see Sirius as more a substitute father figure than mentor. He was the person who was closest to James (and in terms of years, more consistently so than Lily) , so in Harry getting to know who his father was, Sirius was critical in providing the details which confirmed and/or denied who the person of James was. That Sirius never seemed to move past (his growth was arrested ) was, to me, greatly influenced by James' premature death, and kept James in a perpetual state of youth in Sirius' mind and actions - so much so, that when he interacts with Harry, he often confuses Harry in being James. This isn't, in my opinion, a mentor relationship, but more akin to the abstracted hero - and James was certainly a hero to Sirius.

I realize that I might be contradicting myself here, in my previous answer which defined a mentor vs. hero in that a personal relationship is required, but it isn't really, because it also requires a relationship with the person and Sirius for a large part was just continuing his relationship with James through Harry.

Lots of parents are viewed by their children as heroes, and have a hard time when the child grows up, and it is time to let go, to release that childlike worshipful view and become a mentor: ie. have a learning relationship with the person that child has become. Writing this, I was reminded of the 1991 remake of Father of the Bride , which kind of sums up these thoughts perfectly for me. smile.gif
harrypottergeek2
I see what you're saying, and I agree that Sirius acted as a father substitute for Harry (which is exactly what makes him a good godfather), but IMO, anyone can be a father or father figure and still be a mentor. Think about it: have you ever heard of someone regarding their father (figure) as a mentor? The only thing it changes is the personal relationship between mentor and pupil (or whatever you would call the other person).

The way I see it, a mentor is someone you share a personal relationship with, and who you look to for help, guidance, advice, etc. This, IMO, is a very accurate assessment of Sirius' relationship with Harry. Yes, on Sirius' part, he did end up continuing his friendship with James through Harry in a metaphorical way, but that doesn't change the fact that, deep down, he knew who Harry was and understood what sort of a role he played in Harry's life. He was proud to be Harry's godfather - to be the one who was responsible for his well-being; he just also happened to see a lot of James in Harry as well. Like any good parent/guardian, Sirius' number one priority (once out of Azkaban, and established a mutual connection with Harry) was Harry's safety. This mindset didn't seem like the same sort of concern one has for their best friend; that sort of connection and mindset is very different. So it wasn't as though the fact that he could see James in Harry clouded his perception of who he was to Harry and what his role in Harry's life was.

However, I do find your idea of Sirius regarding Harry as an abstract hero figure of James very intriguing. He certainly seems to anticipate a very strong projection of James in Harry, but he knows that James is gone, so it almost seems like Sirius' connection to James through Harry parallels the way someone connects to their lost loved ones with the Resurrection Stone (obviously not exactly, and Sirius wouldn't have seen it that way never having used the Stone before, but the connection is interesting).
wickedboy
I think it is a little odd for Harry to ask himself throughout the series 'what would my father do in this situation?' and answer himself 'I'm going to do what my father would do' or 'I'm going to do what my father did' - if James wasn't serving as a mentor. Even after James fell from the pedestal in OOTP in Harry's eyes, he continued to say these things to himself and got fierce if anyone talked negatively about his father - because he saw himself just like his dad. Remember when Remus told him he was too trusting like his dad and Harry went ballistic? Remember when Lupin left #12 Harry said, what would my father have done? Then he sat feeling guilty as all get out? That is why I think his dad served as a mentor for him.

People have mentors they have never met. Scientists do it all the time, using Einstein and others as their mentors - quoting them, studying them, applying their theories and fully allowing them to guide their work. They often surpass their mentors, but when they talk about their youth, the name of that mentor always comes up. But Harry had known his father, if for a short while and much of his subconscious would come pouring forth when others spoke of him. Harry found his father in himself - Dumbledore told him...

Then there are the mentors that help in a more "daily life" sense with correctional conversation which is what I think Dumbledore, Sirius and Remus did. Harry actually listened to what they said and was moved by their words. He changed his behavior and thoughts based on what they said and went to them with questions for answers. That is what a mentor is and truly there is little difference between that and a father figure.

A father is a natural mentor, even those who talk little are emulated by their sons, in behavior, thinking and mannerisms. Often in personality, inflection of voice and other ways as well.

If you get down to brass tacks, Harry had no mentors and only father figures, but in the sense we are talking here, they served as both.
momwitch
I still think there has to be a reciprocal growth between student and teacher to make a relationship truly a mentorship one. We see that Dumbledore has grown throughout the Series in his interaction with Harry, he is willing to admit that he made mistakes and has misjudged and underestimated what Harry was capable of handling (eg. the circumstances surrounding his parents' deaths and his friendship with Grindelwald), so to me, their relationship is almost a textbook Mentorship one. Remus learns from Harry in going home to Tonks and their unborn child - and is able to experience - for whatever short time that was - the love and joy that being a parent can bring. Hagrid, though he remains childlike and trusting, learns that there are times when discretion and caution must be exercised in dealing with unknowns, whether they are cute but not so cuddly baby dragons, giant spiders - or the arrogance exhibited by "entitled" individuals, who don't think that the rules of respect (especially those followed by "lesser" creatures such as hippogriffs) apply to them.

In James' case, he is dead - and his relationship with Harry cannot truly mutually "grow". Even in their encounter within the Resurrection Stone, the advice given is vague, but it is the knowledge of his unconditional support and love, which propels Harry on. Harry wants to know if death is going to hurt, and James (along with the others) is able to comfort him in that it won't because it is something that he has already been through - but that isn't mentoring, that is acting as any decent parent would for their frightened child who is about to face a challenge which must be confronted, but may be beyond the scope of preparation.
harrydavid
QUOTE(momwitch @ Jun 7 2008, 08:12 AM) *
I still think there has to be a reciprocal growth between student and teacher to make a relationship truly a mentorship one. We see that Dumbledore has grown throughout the Series in his interaction with Harry, he is willing to admit that he made mistakes and has misjudged and underestimated what Harry was capable of handling (eg. the circumstances surrounding his parents' deaths and his friendship with Grindelwald), so to me, their relationship is almost a textbook Mentorship one. Remus learns from Harry in going home to Tonks and their unborn child - and is able to experience - for whatever short time that was - the love and joy that being a parent can bring. Hagrid, though he remains childlike and trusting, learns that there are times when discretion and caution must be exercised in dealing with unknowns, whether they are cute but not so cuddly baby dragons, giant spiders - or the arrogance exhibited by "entitled" individuals, who don't think that the rules of respect (especially those followed by "lesser" creatures such as hippogriffs) apply to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your idea that mentorship must include reciprocal growth. It is possible for the mentor to grow during the relationship, but I don't think that it makes it less of a mentoring relationship if the mentor doesn't grow. I have mentored many men and I am sure that I grew a great deal at first due to those relationships. But at over 60, I don't think I necessarily grow due to each mentoring relationship any more. Dumbledore is over 115, so I doubt he has to grow in every mentoring relationship. I don't know that he learned through Harry to admit his mistakes. I think this was a lesson learned many years ago. And Remus was a mentor to Harry, even if the event in Deathly Hallows had never happened.
momwitch
I remain in respectful disagreement with you, harrydavid, though I do admire the counsel and support you have offered to the men who have benefitted from your advisement in how to make it through their troubled times. wizard.gif I think even at more advanced ages we continue to grow and learn, so as they might not appear as dramatic as those encounters we had while younger, we cannot pigeonhole individuals, and we learn how which approach best works for that person, rather than assume that one size fits all, and expect a proper fit when the garment might not be cut to size for that particular person.
JKR touched upon that with the Series, in the treatment of Dudley's out dated and ill fitting hand-me-downs to Harry. In expecting Harry to be grateful for whatever the Dursleys were willing to give, it showed that all boys of a certain age are not cut from the same cloth, and have different needs and should be treated on a case by case basis. This isn't to say that there aren't common similarities that make all boys, boys, but all boys do not respond to the same stimuli in exactly the same way, either. The Dursleys weren't mentors to Harry, yet Harry acted in a big way as a mentor to the Dursleys - especially Dudley - though the Durselys would be hard-pressed to acknowledge Harry's significance to themselves in that capacity.

Dora87
Sorry for the OT, I just wanted to say that I loved harrypottergeek2's post about Sirius and Harry's relationship.

I agree with everything you said, and it's written in a very nice way. clap2.gif
rowena r
QUOTE
The way I see it, a mentor is someone you share a personal relationship with, and who you look to for help, guidance, advice, etc.

That is exactly the way I see the mentor relationship harrypottergeek2. smile.gif IMO, a mentor is a person who doesn't merely guide you, but understands you, sometimes even more than you understand yourself and makes sure you don't go the wrong way if he can help it. A mentor doesn't merely take care of his pupil's academical development, he is concerned about his all-round welfare.

From the pupil's side, he must regard a person to be his superior in some field and be willing to learn from him. He must have respect for the mentor, but not the kind of awe that prevents him from asking questions and doubts. The relationship is essentially two-way as I look at it. It is not possible to be an unwilling mentor or unwilling pupil in the true sense of the word. The mutual acceptance and trust is a very important part of mentorship.

Very few of Harry's relationships fall into this category IMO. For one, there is Sirius. Harry clearly regarded Sirius as a parent substitute and Sirius reciprocated wholeheartedly, not just because he was Harry's Godfather, but because he genuinely loved Harry. Sirius did everything he could for Harry and most of all, he listened to Harry and understood his feelings. Sirius was hampered by his own feeling of helplessness for most of the time he had, but still, he did his best to be there for Harry. Harry was also very open with Sirius, telling him everything that went on inside his mind and troubled him. He certainly saw Sirius as his superior in a lot of ways too and was willing to learn from him. The relationship they shared was one very rarely seen in father-son relationships - that of friendship; that friendship would have led to a more beautiful relationship had not Sirius been cruelly snatched away from Harry. paw.gif

Next : Remus. Remus was another person who truly loved Harry even if he deliberately stopped himself from showing it. His concern for Harry was especially apparent when he taught him the Patronus charm in POA. He was torn between wanting Harry to learn to fight on one hand and wanting to spare him the horrors of going through the training on the other. Harry too liked Remus a lot and wanted to learn everything Remus could teach him. There existed a very loving relationship between the two, even reversing the role for a short time in DH when Harry berates Remus for leaving his wife and child. That relationship too was cruelly cut short not only because of Remus' death, but even before that due to circumstances that prevented them from becoming more close to each other. Remus showed what he thought of Harry by naming him godfather to Teddy and that fact was not lost on Harry. wolf.gif

My top vote went to Dumbledore for I see him as the prime mentor in Harry's life - not only while he was alive, but also after he died. Dumbldore had resolved not to let anything come in his plan of getting rid of Voldemort once and for all, but his love for Harry came very near to breaking that resolve. Dumbledore may have looked upon Harry as a child who had to be raised to face what would confront him sooner or later at first, but Harry soon made a very special place in Dumbledore's heart and stayed there. Dumbledore understood Harry more than Harry himself did. Dumbledore knew that Harry would never turn his back on his responsibility or a challenge, especially when other's lives depended upon it.

There was something about Dumbledore that drew him close to Harry. Dumbledore, by his own admission, cared too much for Harry. The extent of the 'too much' can be gleaned by the fact that Dumbledore let his plan slide to the background in favour of Harry's peace of mind. For all of Harry's anger at Dumbledore for not telling him the whole truth, he was never angry at Dumbledore for wanting him to fight Voldemort, because that's what he would have done anyway. What he baulked at was the lack of information and cryptic messages that didn't make sense at first. But I'm sure that if Dumbledore had abandoned his plan just because of his love for Harry, Harry would have been more angry; angry that Dumbledore didn't think Harry would understand him and that Dumbledore didn't think much of him.

Harry may have had a thousand grievances against Dumbledore, but once he looked into those blue eyes that always had an explanation and an apology if needed, all his anger ebbed away in moments. Dumbledore was the only one Harry felt completely secure with and that is a very big factor in their relationship. He was the only person in the whole wide world who, Harry felt, understood him truly and that is an even bigger achievement. Harry was eager to learn anything Dumbledore taught him and Dumbledore on his part, loved Harry more than anything else in the world. The combination put together made their relationship very, very special. Death once again came between Harry and his mentor, but Dumbledore was too smart for that. He had made sure that Harry would continue receiving his advice and gifts as and when he needed them. For me, Dumbledore's presence in Harry's King's Cross proves beyond any doubt that Dumbledore loved Harry and also Harry thought the world of Dumbledore in return. heart.gif
Maime the Hunter
I wish the choice would have been Lily and James together, because I think the memory of his parents, (as oposed to his mother and father as individuals) dedication to the fight against Voldemort was great inspiration to Harry. He wanted to fight Dark Wizards like his mum and Dad, I think the fact that they kept going meant he kept going.

As to living Mentors: keeping in mind that a human mentor is not in himself perfect, I would say it depends.

Obviously, as how to lead, (and how not to lead), Dumbledore was Harry's mentor.
As to loyalty, perserverance, daring and personal sacrfice, I would say Sirius. He also learned from Sirius, how to fight one's way out of despair to help another.
Patience and balanced approach to others: Lupin.
The Weasley's as individuals and a family displayed "good citizenship" at it's best for Harry. They were good neighbors, ready to defend not only their homes and rights but ready to speak up and defend the homes, families and rights of others. They also exhibited true charity;even though they had little, they were willing to open their homes to others.
From Ron: the true measure of a friend. He opened not only his heart, but his home to Harry. He couldn't have done this, however, if he was raised by different kind of people.
From Hermione: the true measure of a friend. She supported Harry even when she thought she was wrong. My favorite example of this was in POA, when Hermione, Ron and Harry acted as one t silence Snape's tirade to hear the truth. (I would have loved to see Emma portray that: First stunning Snape without a thought, then thinking about what she did and wringing her her hands... It is one of my favorite scenes in the book and that's saying a lot as I still believe POA to be Jo's masterpeice of writing. )
From Hagrid: caring for someone in spite of their appearance as well as undying faith and loyalty.

From Snape: How to hold a grudge, or dissapointment, or repress one's feelings until the combination poisons one's perpsective and one's bearing in the world. It was a negative lesson, but seeing what these things do t Snape, helped Harry avoid the same trap--well that and the fact that he many other good examples from people Sirius, Lupin, Dumbledore, the Weasleys. From Snape: how to use one's position of trust to act out personal grudges. Again it was a "negative lesson" but the very last person Harry wanted to be like was Severus Snape. We cannot say Snape's affection for Lily was false, but here we see him choose evil over the warnings of a friend. Harry doesn't see this until the end, but he learns--more from Dumbledore--to sometimes trust the judgement of others. One of the most moving lines comes in OOP, when Harry sees through his panic, that Hermione is trying to help.

From Snape; Forgiveness. Because Snape could not forgive himself, let alone anyone else, Harry learns the value of understanding and forgiveness and is able to extend this to Snape himself.
From the Dursleys: Well Petunia taught him to cook and clean , so at least he could survive on his own in that respect. But they taught him the cost of nuturing spite, envy, and resentment not only affects the person you victimize but in the long run--look at Dudley--yourself.And he learned he was not the kind of person who would take advantage of a situation--the Dursley's needing his protection--even for revenge.

Harry is fine Hero--the kind who learns from both negative and positive situations. Well done Jo!
Antonija
I think that that is Dumbledore. i think that Harry saw in him more than a mentor. (I hope I understand the meaning in this thread.)Dumbledore gave harry a lot of mysteries just to give him more knowledge and I think he succed in that.
phoenix call
Dumbledore! these two had such a strong bond, and dumbledore was a great mentor. he truly cared for harry, but still alowed him to do have his independence. He taught harry so much about honour, love, his life, and how to defeat voldy, but he gave harry just enough information for him to forge his own path through life, whilst helping him along the way. smile.gif wizard.gif
cloudpic
coffee.gif Fascinating discussion, all... thanks for a great thread, lirene!

We seem to be building a consensus of just what a mentoring relationship might be, perhaps because there is no single "fit" for the concept in the series? I agree, though that there are many characters who've had that sort of powerful influence on Harry.

I rather like the idea that Harry had some peer-mentors (someone near in age) as mentioned by Moose_Star and Ex Libres Cogito among others. If a mentor is one who has superior experience to one's own in a place or field new to the mentee and has the mutual respect/trust many of you have mentioned... it seems that Ron and the twins especially helped Harry enter the wizarding world, don't you think?

Some mentors are intentionally trying help someone find success and satisfaction in a particular career path, no? In that sense of the term, we'd have to ask just what is the "field of study" which Harry is preparing for in the series? My feeling about this is echoed in many posts here: he's learning to help the world (not just the wizarding world, I think) control the forces of evil. In the time of the series, that means Voldemort in particular. But, we learn he becomes the Head of the Aurors even as a rather young man, so that struggle continues. It seems to me that Dumbledore particularly and, in lesser ways, the memory of his parents' the Weasley adults, and teachers McGonagall, Hagrid, Moody, and Lupin impacted Harry in this way.

Another sort of mentor nowadays, though, seems to be more a sort of moral guide. This sort of mentor isn't specific to a particular career path, but instead serves as a guide in the mentee's efforts at becoming a part of the human community (LOL... or Wizarding World, if you'd prefer!) Truly, though, I wonder if the same choices wouldn't serve? Dumbledore certainly helped Harry to understand the dangers of facing a talented and thoroughly evil enemy. . . but he seemed also to be concerned with Harry's own mental well-being too.

I keep thinking about that theme of choices which was so powerful in the series. In that sense, ultimately, even Severus Snape served as mentor to Harry, no? But, it seems to me that a mentor would offer more than example (good or bad)... but would have to discuss in a thoughtful way what choices the mentee might make. Those talks Dumbledore has with Harry seem to me to fit that requirement. I liked Dumbledore's mentoring style... he was a bit "hands off" in many ways rather than being entirely pedantic, don't you think?
Prongs Patronus
I really think we saw just who Harry considered his mentors in the Forest scene. That, plus the conversation with DD in King's Cross station, are Harry's real pantheon, IMHO.

PP stag.gif
lola_loves_dan
I chose Dumbledore but i think that many of the characters throughout the books helped Harry to defeat Voldemort by simply being there for him. Harry was constantly fearing that he would endanger the lives of his friends by simply being associated with them but they never left his side-Ron, Hermione, the Weasley's, Sirius Lupin and Dumbledore. They all stuck with him despite the dangers and i think that meant a lot to Harry and motivated him even more so to defeat Voldemort. I would even say that Lily and James acted as great mentors. Harry's memory of them acted as the driving force for his motivation and determination to defeat Voldemort so that they would not die in vain. Though Harry himself must be given most credit. After losing so many loved ones he never lost heart and despite confusing messages from Dumbledore in book 7, he was still successful in the end because of his bravery and strong love for his friends. However Dumbledore from the very beginning protected Harry and taught him everything he needed to know (maybe not what Harry wanted to know though) in order to defeat Voldemort in the end, while still building a strong loving relationship with him which must be admired! smile.gif
cloudpic
Your idea, Prongs Patronus, that those who stood by Harry in the Forbidden Forest were vital in his character formation is truly lovely. Seems strange, though now I think further, to consider Harry's parents as mentors. They certainly had a great deal to do with establishing Harry's root character formation, but he lost them (except as memories and in stories) when he was only a year old. Is that mentoring as we understand it?

Mentoring seems as though it'd be more interactive and on-going. Those wonderful people who walked with him were those who loved him and sacrificed themselves for him, but I'm wondering now if they are all mentors... or role models? The other trouble is that this excludes any mentor still living. I know some feel that Harry was meant to be stripped of all his adult support before he faced his final crisis, but I'm not sure JKR followed any literary pattern (e.g. The Hero's Journey) fully. I still see some secondary mentors alive and well, i.e., Minerva McGonagall, Hagrid, and the Weasleys.

Your comment, lola_loves_dan, that Harry deserves credit is so true. He was amazingly open to the mentoring, behavior of his fine role models, and even the lessons learned from the mistakes of those around him! Would that we all could manage to recognize the finest aspects of those around us and to strive to emulate them.

That takes us back to Sirius as mentor. Those who've discussed his mixed efforts and virtues spotlight such an important gift Harry has even as a young child. He seems to realize the things which a mentor genuinely offers and recognizes that that mentor might not always achieve perfection himself. There's no doubt, though, of Sirius's genuine love for his Godson.
Fricka
Hmm. All of the posts thus far have been thoughtful and therefore I enjoyed reading every one of them. But am I being too obsessive when I stick to the term."literary mentor"?
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, and if so, forgive me, but if this term means someone who has a literary/academic influence on Harry,then my first choice would be Hermione Granger.
She's the one who finds out about the PS/SS. Even if Harry and Ron had read that bit about flamel, would they have gotten the idea about the stone as quickly without Hermione?
She's the one who saved(inadvertently, true, but nevertheless--) Harry from Quirrel in the Quidditch match. She's the one who performed petrificus totalus on Neville(poor Neville!) so he couldn't betray the trio as they were going to go down the trap door.
she's the one who figured out what to do about the devil's snare, though she did have some reminding from Ron as to how to do it. She's the one who solved the logic puzzle so Harry could go on to the next level.
The main reason I thought of Hermione at first is the use "literary influence". Is there anyone more literary than Hermione in the whole series? We're always bein told she's reading some book.
My second choice would be Lupin,because he taught Harry about the Patronus charm, but I don't think he is as literary as Hermione is.
Any comments?
harrypottergeek2
QUOTE(Fricka @ Jul 11 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Hmm. All of the posts thus far have been thoughtful and therefore I enjoyed reading every one of them. But am I being too obsessive when I stick to the term."literary mentor"?
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, and if so, forgive me, but if this term means someone who has a literary/academic influence on Harry,then my first choice would be Hermione Granger.
She's the one who finds out about the PS/SS. Even if Harry and Ron had read that bit about flamel, would they have gotten the idea about the stone as quickly without Hermione?
She's the one who saved(inadvertently, true, but nevertheless--) Harry from Quirrel in the Quidditch match. She's the one who performed petrificus totalus on Neville(poor Neville!) so he couldn't betray the trio as they were going to go down the trap door.
she's the one who figured out what to do about the devil's snare, though she did have some reminding from Ron as to how to do it. She's the one who solved the logic puzzle so Harry could go on to the next level.
The main reason I thought of Hermione at first is the use "literary influence". Is there anyone more literary than Hermione in the whole series? We're always bein told she's reading some book.
My second choice would be Lupin,because he taught Harry about the Patronus charm, but I don't think he is as literary as Hermione is.
Any comments?


No, I don't think your being too obsessive smile.gif , but in the Potterverse, I think we can broaden the concept of literary and academic influence to include DD and Sirius because DADA is considered an (important) area of study. DD obviously had the larger influence here because he trained Harry (in numerous ways) to defeat LV, but Sirius had quite the influence on Harry's DA movements, and he provided a lot of help for Harry in GoF for his Triwizard training.
VoodooPadfoot
I picked Dumbledore, automatically, as he is the one everybody reamembers. But then I noticed that another pinical one is Sirius Black. I know he's reckless, loud-mouthed, daring (and lets not forget amazingly handsome) but I feel that he really taught Harry a lot about humanity. He is a seriousl (excuse the pun) good person, deep down. He brought out a stronger personality in Harry, one willing to be more keen to stand up for what he belived in and defy unfair laws.
Orchidea15
Harry had a good 3 to 4 mentors in my opinion. Of course we all know that Dumblefore was one of the main mentors for him.
Not too mention he was in contact with him the longest, throughout the whole series. Another person I felt was a mentor to him was Sirius, yes not
only was that his goldchild, but Sirius appointed him in certain situations of which gave em the characteristic traits of a mentor. Then last but not least.
Remus Lupin. Although he only helped Harry the most in his 3rd year. He privately taught Harry how to cast a patronus because
he felt Harry was ready and capable of doing so.


Fricka
Just wanted to say that I think I was being a bit "nit-picky" by interpreting the term literary mentor the way I did.(Sorry--nit-picking seems to come with being an
English teacher--and even when I think I have turned that part off, here it comes out again without my meaning it to! Sorry!)
Well, now that I have had a chance to re-think, I believe I would vote for Hagrid, Dumbledore, and Lupin. The idea of Snape being a negative type of mentor is interesting too, as apparently he shows Harry more what not to do than to follow his sad example.
Hagrid is an unscholarly mentor, but he is the one who brings Harry into the wizarding world and explains a lot of it to him(like Voldemort and his parents).
Dumbledore is more of a remote mentor. He doesn't have the "cuddly" factor of Hagrid, and in some ways, Harry barely gets to know him--a fact that he is faced with in DH. For instance,we see Hagrid telling Harry about his mother being a giantess and his father being a wizard, and how happy his father was when Hagrid actually made it into Hogwarts. Hagrid identifies with Harry a lot and tells him that. In contrast, Dumbledore never tells Harry anything personal about himself insofar as his family is concerned. The reference he makes to his own brother in GOF is a bit chilling--he does say that his brother got into trouble for using inappropriate charms on a goat(he-he!) but then he says that he doesn't even know if his brother can read or not! What a put-down. DD certainly never tells Harry anything about his mother or sister, or even that his family lived in Godric's Hollow--the same place where Harry's parents were living! Harry has to find this all out in DH.
Oh, well , nobody's perfect. Dumbledore does try his best to get Harry prepped for meeting Voldemort, and doubtless that is what weighed on his mind more. It's just too bad that he thought he could do that more effectively by being emotionally remote from Harry.
Lupin is probably my favorite HP mentor. He doesn't put on airs like *cough*Lockhart*cough* , but his practical approach to DADA teaching leads not only Harry but the rest of the third years as well, into becoming more experienced wizards. Not only does he help Harry learn how to conjure a corporeal patronus, he also takes time to talk to Harry, to try to make things easier for him. The fact that he is one of the originators of the Maurader's Map doesn't hurt either. That's a tool that Harry finds useful for years afterwards.
firephoenix
I believe that there were several mentors in Harry's life. In the end I choose Hagrid. It has alot to do with Hagrid being there when it really mattered. Also, Hagrid's child like aproach to life. It is linked with the love theme and having your heart wide open.

If we could all focus on the good in everything what a world this would be!
Wandguardnoodle
QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Jun 3 2008, 08:23 PM) *
Any objective outsider would see Snape as a bad influence (i.e. one who's footsteps should not be followed), and this, IMO, is something you should never see in a good mentor (at least not to this extreme - everyone has their faults, but some faults are more definitive in a negative way, and that should not be an issue for a good mentor).
I agree. Even though, I do think that Snape in some ways helps Harry *develop*, but I'd think that mentoring thing shouldn't be negative. At least, I've always associated mentoring with some positive *force*, positive feelings towards the mentored one. We see examples when Dumbledore appears to have forgotten Harry in OotP, but we know that his intentions were good and Snape showed that he didn't care even a tiny bit for Harry. So, the way that I understand mentoring he couldn't be a mentor.
QUOTE(lirene @ Jun 3 2008, 05:05 PM) *
as a reader, I feel that mentors as a theme in the HP series is quite pronounced; even if that wasn't necessarily Rowling's intention. Harry grew up essentially alone with the Dursleys. He really didn't have anyone to look up to, or to guide him. So whether or not Harry was subconsciously seeking a mentor is surely food for thought. However, I certainly agree that Harry's mission would have been so much more difficult if he had to go at it alone.
I also think that the mentoring theme is quite prominent in the series. I mean, we're seeing the main characters growing up and also in the school - I think that everyone needs mentoring when growing up. unsure.gif I don't think that Harry is looking for mentors, but that he kind of just finds them - if that makes sense. A scene from PS comes to mind when Draco offers Harry some help picking friends and Harry refuses. Well, I don't really know how that's relevant to my point lol. But well, Harry says that he can decide for himself, this, to me, kind of shows that Harry also deserves credit for picking the right people to mentor him (I think, this might have already been mentioned somewhere in this thread).
QUOTE(wickedboy @ Jun 5 2008, 05:49 AM) *
Hagrid at first, then Dumbledore and Hagrid kind of fell off (but still loved), and then Sirius, then Remus then the three died. Harry's parents were more like "father figures", however, in the end, I could include his father because everyone always said he thought or had done something like his dad and later Harry started making comments about how he'd stand up to Voldemort like his dad and never bow and planned to do other stuff like him then in Deathly Hallows he asked himself what his father might do in a situation he was in. So I see his dad as a mentor, not his mum so much, but if he thought of her that way, then she would be also. That I guess would be based on what he knew of them and what he subconsciously recalled from a baby.
That's some interesting thoughts about James. Even though I like momwitch's point of view that mentoring should include interaction between the mentor and the mentored one and mutual growth and such, I kind of like the idea that James was Harry's mentor even though he didn't interact with Dad, but with rather with his Dad as he found him in himself (sorry, that sounds confusing, but I hope, you know what I'm trying to say) - I mean, thinking of what his father would do in one situation or another and then acting that way.
QUOTE(momwitch @ Jun 7 2008, 08:12 AM) *
I still think there has to be a reciprocal growth between student and teacher to make a relationship truly a mentorship one. We see that Dumbledore has grown throughout the Series in his interaction with Harry, he is willing to admit that he made mistakes and has misjudged and underestimated what Harry was capable of handling (eg. the circumstances surrounding his parents' deaths and his friendship with Grindelwald), so to me, their relationship is almost a textbook Mentorship one. Remus learns from Harry in going home to Tonks and their unborn child - and is able to experience - for whatever short time that was - the love and joy that being a parent can bring. Hagrid, though he remains childlike and trusting, learns that there are times when discretion and caution must be exercised in dealing with unknowns, whether they are cute but not so cuddly baby dragons, giant spiders - or the arrogance exhibited by "entitled" individuals, who don't think that the rules of respect (especially those followed by "lesser" creatures such as hippogriffs) apply to them.
You summed what I'm thinking as well here smile.gif I picked these three people (Dumbledore, Lupin and Hagrid) in the poll. I like your observations about Dumbledore and Harry's mentoring-relationship here: I agree that they both grow, I think, Dumbledore realises that he has to grow / change in order to be able to be a mentor to Harry, because as the story progresses we see that Harry grows and needs more from his mentor than he needed in the beginning. In PS, he doesn't *push* Dumbledore to get all the truth out; and in the end of OotP, Dumbledore realises that he has to tell Harry more, because Harry's grown and he needs, well, a slightly different kind of guiding --- If that makes sense.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.