Albus Dumbledore stated back in Goblet of Fire that it was our Choices that made us who we are. Does statement hold up to the end of the series? Was it really all up to Choice? Or did Fate lend a hand in the events that lead to Voldemort's downfall.

Is it possible for Fate and Choice to both be factors?

Could Neville have been the one Scared and carry Harry's journey?

Was the way Harry became master of the Eldar wand a mark for Fate and chance rather then Choice?

If Voldemort is who he is, could he ever have made any other choice? If no then is that more Fate then choice?

Woohoo ! Looks like I'm the first to comment. Before starting on my thoughts and choices, let me say this : Fantastic poll !

My take on the debate of Choice vs Fate is a bit complicated in the sense that I have my doubts as to whether the two are different concepts at all. They seem to be just Cause and Effect going under aliases.

What is your choice today, is your Fate or Destiny tomorrow. I completely agree with Dumbledore that we are the only ones responsible for what we become, no matter what the circumstances that surround us might be. The circumstances may be factors capable of influencing us one way or the other, but it is entirely upto us whether we choose to walk a certain path or not. The precipitating factor may be anger, fear, greed, jealousy, love or anything, but the ultimate decision is ours. What if, one may ask, someone puts a pistol to your head and asks you to do something that you would never have done otherwise ? Where is the choice ? If one looks carefully, there is a choice. It may be a choice between doing that something and being killed, but there is a choice. And there are people who have chosen the latter in such situations.

Suppose a person puts his finger in fire knowingly, what would happen ? His finger would get burned. Suppose a person put his finger in the fire unknowingly, what would happen ? His finger would get burned. The consequences in these cases are the same, though in the first one, the choice wa made consciously, whereas, in the second, the action was unconcious. Moreover, in the above instance, the effect takes place instantly, leaving us no doubt as to what caused it. What if the fire or our skin waited for a month to burn ? Would we remember what we did a month ago that has now resulted in our finger hurting ? Unlikely. But does that mean the burning was something independent, and not an effect of putting our finger in the fire, knowingly or unknowingly ? We are IMO, just unable to connect the effect with its cause for some reason and think of the effect as something that came out of the blue and call it Destiny.

I cannot agree with the theory that Fate or Destiny is something arbitrary that governs the results of our activities and also the activities themselves. What is the whole point of life if one is a mere puppet in the hands of Fate ? Surely, life means freedom and not slavery ? If we are programmed to function in a certain way by Fate, why do we resent being played with ? Is it Fate that tells us to be unsatisfied with certain situations and happy with others ? I somehow don't think so.

Chance or Luck is another factor that I am confused about. Why should chance favour someone over someone else ? Or does it just seem to, while it isn't really so ? There is an old story about a wise man telling his friend that Luck is nothing but a projection of his expectations. Keeping other factors aside, suppose one expects a good result and it doesn't happen, he terms it Bad Luck. Conversely, if the person is not expecting a desired outcome but it happens, he calls it Good Luck. Put me down as undecided as to the concept of Luck for now.

Coming to the options I would choose in the poll :

Choice.

Choice.

I chose other because there are so many different factors that come to play here. I don't doubt that Neville would have done what Harry did, but just that could he have done it ? Note, I'm not questioning his willingness or bravery, but his abilities. Harry had some special abilities that set him apart from most of his peers including Neville. There was Lily's protection working for Harry too. Frank and Alice would have died to protect their son, but would Voldemort have asked Alice to step aside so he could kill her son ? There are too many If's coming between answering this question categorically IMO.

This looks like an amalgam of unconscious choice and what appears to be chance to me. Harry certainly didn't know he was going to become the owner of the Elder Wand by wrenching Draco's wand out of his grip, but he did know that he would win Draco's wand from him while doing so. Also, merely taking Draco's wand away from him wouldn't have made much difference if Draco hadn't disarmed Dumbledore previously. The balance swings towards chance and that is what I went with.

On the whole, I would have to say that I do not have any definite conclusions one way or the other, but have just thought out loud in this post and am looking forward to the insights given the people who comment on this very interesting topic.

I voted for choice throughout and no Neville could not have done what Harry did. He didn't have the ability. Also it was chance that made Harry master of the wand. We not only have Dumbledore's words that it is our choices that show who we are, but we also have his skepticism on the validity of the prophecy. It was a self fulfilling prophecy in that had Voldemort never heard it or hadn't acted on it, then it would not have been fulfilled. Remember, Dumbledore asked rhetorically if Harry thought that all prophecies in the Hall of Prophecy had been fulfilled. Obviously, not.

I also voted choice throughout and no to Neville! I think that everyone's choices affect their own lives as well as everyone else's whether they mean it to or not! Choice, choice, choice!!!

I agree with Rowena, fate and choice are so connected. I think our choices form our fate, our destiny. Our choices can change our destiny in an instant. I just looked for a conversation I'm vaguely remembering between DD and Harry. They were discussing the prophecy, I believe. Harry was assuming that the prophecy had decided his future, but DD tells Harry only he can decide his future. He could walk away at any time. Maybe it was in DH, and DD said he could have walked away at any time. Either way, Harry made the choice and it formed his destiny. Had he made a different choice, his destiny would have been different. Or I suppose it could be looked at the other way, Harry made the choices he did because it was his destiny. Depends on your perspective I guess.

So given the closeness of choices and fate, I had difficult answering the questions. Choice was the overall determining factor in the series. LV was defeated based on his own choices. Neville couldn't have accomplished what Harry did, although I think he would have tried extremely hard, but had LV chosen Neville (the pure blood) he would not have been defeated. As for Harry becoming the master of the Elder Wand. This one really made me think. I think destiny or fate played a role in this. Based on the choices Harry had made and the choices he would continue to make, it was Harry's destiny to defeat LV. In order to defeat LV, he need to be the master of the Elder Wand, so fate stepped in and made it happen. Its a leap of faith on my part. Just a hope that fate does make sure we have the tools necessary to reach our destiny.

I agree that the questions were hard to answer, though I find that both Destiny and Choice played a role in the Series.

I say that Destiny had a role, because if either/or/both Harry and Voldemort were born Squibs, the choices they would have had to make would have not even broached the Magical realm. Harry would probably have been raised in relative "happiness" at the Durselys - as he would have provided no magical threat to Petunia and Vernon, and he would probably have never known about his magical heritage. If Tom Riddle Junior was a Muggle, he might not have felt that he was more "special" than the other orphans at the home - yet if he did turn into a criminal sort, his offenses would probably have been dealt within the conventional Justice system of Muggle Society. So Destiny does play a role, but from that starting point, it is the choices we make, which tests our merits and defines us into the persons we end up becoming.

Jo herself seems to discount Destiny. She actually calls Destiny choices that have dramatic consequences. From the Leaky/Mugglenet Interview:Then from Jo's website:

I would agree to a point if Neville really didn't amount to anything, if he was truly not as good as Harry. Then it would be a clear choice between Voldemort succeding and failing. However Neville DID amount to something and even played a critical role in defeating Voldemort. So to me that seems like fate provided two children who could defeat Voldemort. It was just up to Voldemort to decide which way he was going to go.

Furthermore in OOTP during Albus's talk with Harry and figuring out if Harry had a choice it seems evident that this meeting was going to happen either way Harry decided. It was just a difference if he would be dragged in or walking in head held high. The confrontation was still Fated to happen, as it did. Because Harry choose to face it like a man he got to live, had he not who knows what would have happened. But because each person is who they are and Albus indicates that Vold would never accept or consider feeling remorse, there is no choice for him but to be fated to death.

The balance of nature wanted to restore its self since Voldemort had created so many horcruxes from his own soul. Even the struggle for dominance over the Eldar wand was not about choice, it was just chance.

QUOTE(Shard @ Jun 17 2008, 12:22 PM)

The balance of nature wanted to restore its self since Voldemort had created so many horcruxes from his own soul. Even the struggle for dominance over the Eldar wand was not about choice, it was just chance.

I like how you phrased the first part of your sentence, Shard in that the balance of nature became askew with Voldemort's breaking so many laws of nature. I believe nature first wanted to correct this balance if you will in Ollivander's when Harry's wand chose him to be it's owner. It's as if the magical world sensed that in Harry lied the salvation of the Wizarding World. What Harry chose to do from there, were direct consequences on the choices he made. However, since Harry's life was so closely intertwined with Voldemort's, Dumbledore's words to Snape in the Prince's Tale "To speak of one is to speak of the other" resonate with me as a reader. To me this is saying that the Fate of these two wizards depended on each other.

Harry's acquisition of the Elder Wand seemed to me to be more chance than choice given the circumstances of the fight between Draco and Harry. However, the coming to the understanding of its powers were Harry's choices. Harry chose to talk to Ollivander about wandlore; and he chose Horcruxes over Hallows.

I think that choice is the overall deciding factor of the series is choice, if harry had chosen to believe hagrid he wouldnt know who he was, if ron hadnt chosen to sit in harry's carriage they may not have met or been as close, if hermione had not chosen to lie about the troll-rescue-thing then they wouldnt have become the trio and so on.
I also think Voldemorts choices were what made things pan out the way they did. If he hadnt have chosen harry as the "chosen one", of he hadnt chosen to use harry's blood, if he hadnt chosen to kill then things may have turned out very differently.
I dont believe Neville would have been able to do what harry did, not because he is not a good enough person, but because Harry has natural abilities that he doesn't have. He is not as magically abled as Harry, discluding his ability at herbology.
I think it was chance that Harry became the owner of the Elder wand, as he wasnt able to do anything on top of the tower, and he was ever aware untill the end that what he was doing was making him master of the wand. Most things he did considering the elder wand were chance.

In short, Choice Choice No Chance

That's a good point bringing up Harry getting his wand, I wonder if the wand Choose Harry because of who Harry was or because of the little bit of Voldsoul inside of him?

It's so interesting to play What if? There are abilities that Harry has that Neville does not, and vice versa but really which of Harry's abilities were the ones repsonsible for bringing down Voldemort? Harry is a natural flyer and Neville is terrible, but did Harry need flying to defeat Voldemort specifcally? I don't remember any incident where Harry used flying broomstick ability against Voldemort.

They both seem equally adept at using a Sword against Snakes (Harry with the Basilisk, Neville against Nagini).

The spells Harry used I think Neville could use just fine, like Accio and Expelliarmus. I think Neville would not have developed the bad habit of overusing one spell.

Another thing to think about is the Prophecy, it happened just as both Snape and Albus were able to hear it and act upon the information. Where did this prophecy even come from? Who or what spoke through Trelawney if it wasn't some force that wanted Voldemort to be taken down.

I'm thinking that Harry developed his habit of using Expelliarmus because it was one spell that he could do well consistently. When we are good at one thing, we tend to fall back on that behavior as a default setting - you don't need to think about it, and so it feels natural and comfortable to use it. I imagine that Harry was still somewhat uncomfortable with his magical abilities through the many years he had with Vernon and Petunia in which he tried to suppress it. He didn't want to purposely hurt anyone, so disarming them was what he felt most natural doing.

Harry could also cast a patronus earlier than usual, but I think that ability developed through his emulation of his father through Remus' eyes. Perhaps, in a way, Remus' tutoring unconsciously and subtlely suggested the form which the patronus would take...and Harry's desire to get in touch with his parents influenced it as well. We see later that Snape was able to change his patronus to a doe which was the same as Lily's. It seems that a certain amount of desire and conscious effort determines how the patronus is manifested - making it a choice determined by circumstance.

Somehow, I think that Neville's faith in Harry actually strengthened Harry's ability. Through it all, even though Neville might have been the "chosen one", perhaps this "One" would actually more aptly be described as yet another twin relationship in the Series. Neville and Harry seem to be mirror opposites, with both their abilities (eg. Harry's excellence in flying to Neville's lacking) and Neville acting almost as Harry's conscience (as seen in his effort to stop Harry, Hermione and Ron in PS/SS), which balances out the Prophecy. Harry and Neville act as one: in Harry's absence, Neville takes on the leadership position in Dumbledore's Army - keeping the faith so to speak, and Neville is critical in standing up to Voldemort and getting close enough to finish off Nagini. Without them working together, success against Voldemort would have been unlikely to happen. In this scenario, it was Neville's choice, in allowing Harry to take most of the credit as the "face" of the One with all of its glory, that determined Voldemort's downfall. Here, it was Neville's and not Harry's sacrifice which ultimately turned the tables against Voldemort...a checkmate made possible with a tag team of two black kings on the Board, boxing the white king in from both sides to end in a slam dunk victory.

The question about Neville should have been easy for me to answer: Could he have done what Harry did? But the question doesn't allow that Voldemort, too, may have chosen differently with Neville.

Let's use Prisoner of Azkaban as an example (not Neville, but Harry); regarding Buckbeak, Sirius, Lupin's transformation, Harry's patronus, and Petegrew's "unfortunate" escape). The trio saw Buckbeak die. Sirius was trapped inside Hogwarts, and awaiting "extradition" back to Azkaban, or worse. Lupin missed the potion to control the "public" transformation. Who would have made that amazing patronus?? Ahah! -- Petegrew escaped.

How could Harry's choices have affected any of these outcomes (without the use of a time-turner)? What if he had done something to prepare Buckbeak's case? What if he had "told Sirius off" (like he did with Lupin at 12 Grimmauld in DH -- in order to get him out of danger)? Lupin warned Harry not to take Sirius Black lightly, nor the many people who risked/gave their lives to protect him -- Had Petegrew been taken directly back to the castle, would Lupin have still missed his "potion," even if he had seen Petegrew's dot on the Marauder's Map? Had Harry not gone to "witness" Buckbeak's execution (and to be with Hagrid), would he necessarily have been in a situation to make any patronus that evening? Hagrid told Ron to keep a better eye on his pet.

So what choice could Harry have made to prevent Wormtail's escape? Answer is that he could have chosen to protect his friends, to trust his intuition, to help others, etc. These are all good choices. But remember: just because a person makes a choice to do something, or not to do something, it doesn't mean that their "choice" will be fulfilled in action, and with desired results.