There is an old topic that we wanted to ressurect: Old Power Vs Intellect. We also have an Essay Jo's Harry: A Fan's Point of View By John Noe. He describes how he felt Harry should become this super buff Wizard in order to defeat Voldemort.

The discussion and premise focuses on how a relativly young, not as powerful hero can defeat someone so much more powerful then them selves. In the old thread people discussed how Could Harry defeat Voldemort when he seems so less powerful then Voldemort and how is HArry purer then Dumbledore?

With the release of Deathly Hallows it would seem we got our answers Albus was tempted by power and control and Harry had knowledge and abilities that Voldmort never understood or respected.

There are other literary examples of a much weaker hero defeating a more powerful antagonist. Luke and the Emperor from Star Wars for instance.

What is the literary purpose of doing this, is it possible to enjoy readng a Hero who is obviously stronger then the Antagonist?

How is Love in the literary sense been used to defeat evil and how do you feel about it's use?

The Bible and many ancient texts are rife with the underdog winning the day. David and Goliath, as it were. It gives hope to all the underdogs out there (which is all of us, at some point in our lives, if not our whole lives) and reminds us that we have the responsibility to continue to strive and try rather than give up

First of all, excellent thread Shard

You have brought forth some very thoughtful questions to consider and I will try my best at some of them and let others contribute as well.

Harry was truly young when he defeated Voldemort; a mere 17 year old who seems to have packed years of wisdom and experience under his belt, beyond his years. Harry was thrust into circumstances that it seems no other wizard had to go through and this surely had an effect on our young hero. But what I love about how Harry was portrayed, is how his story is about youth; and a coming of age during a difficult time in the Wizarding World. Harry has managed to truly become not only The Boy Who lived; but the boy who persevered; a boy who chose to face Voldemort. And I really like how Rowling gave Harry a support system and that our hero didn't go at it alone or selfishly, he did so with the help of his friends, Order members, his teachers and last but certainly not least Dumbledore; whom I believe has a pivotal role in Harry's life. However; it is one thing to be a mentor and be someone's teacher; what is important that it's entirely up to the student to take what he/she has learned and apply them to everyday life. Harry certainly does this and surpasses even Dumbledore himself; heck; he surpassed and defeated Voldemort! So as a reader, I don't believe that strength is mightier than the sword; it's wit and intellect that prevail.

To address the second part or the question, Harry is purer than Dumbledore because he wasn't drawn into the concept of possession of the Hallows like Dumbledore was and Harry having power wasn't something for Harry to be afraid of. We never see Harry displaying any sense of Wizarding superiority; as we saw Dumbledore briefly get ensnared into during his foray early on in his life with Gellert. Something Dumbledore regretted until his death.
Love is such a prevalent theme in the HP series and I feel that Rowling has brought a unique twist on love; and that love is magic that we all possess, both wizard and Muggle alike. You don't have to have a wand to be able to love. And love is what conquered Voldemort; it wasn't a mere technicality of Harry possessing the Elder Wand; although it certainly played a role. For all of Voldemort's skill and power, they weren't enough to defeat Harry. One other point I want to make. The story isn't just being able to love; but it's the way Harry understood love that really touched my own heart and drew me into the story. How one boy with a teeny scar on his head came of age and became a man, flaws and all.

Awesome thread, Shard



I guess when I think of the first part of this question I think of how young kids sometimes surprise their elders by the wisdom they possess. The seem young, inexperienced, naive, and weak, and yet they seem to sometimes have a better grasp at understanding things about life than their elders do. And, to our chagrin, we overlook them and take them for granted--underestimate their ability to analyze and process things.

And somehow, I see the same thing with Harry and Voldemort. Harry was grossly underestimated by Voldemort. Here's a young wizard who grew up knowing nothing of what he really was for the first ten years of his life.

So, I guess in summary, I think it was the raw power of Voldemort going up against the power of innocence, youth, and intellect of Harry, a young wizard with a lot of experience, ability, and true character.

As to the second part of the question, I see Harry being purer than Dumbledore because of his innocence, and frankly, his lack of desire to be drawn into the lust of power. Also, Harry really did not possess a manipulative character trait, unlike Dumbledore.



Everyone loves the underdog--it seems to be a given trait among Muggles and wizards alike--all humanity. It gives the reader someone to "root" for, so to speak. It also gives the reader suspense--how is this character going to overcome seemingly impossible odds to triumph?

As to reading a story with the hero obviously stronger than the antagonist, I believe there would be no reason to read, to be frank. If the hero is already in the position to triumph over the antagonist right off the bat, to me there's no reason to keep reading.

In stories such as HP, the hero will be weaker (physicly/power) and often come from a boring,poor lesser life, before learning of their destiny, and they need to gain power and do the unthinkable, imposible, and destroy evil in order to save the world, now there are many examples, as you said, I can mention a few others, Lord of the Rings, his dark mateerias, Eragon, Narnia... in all of which the hero is considered (at least in the beginning) less powerfull...
The story follows them as they grow into their role as a hero, and become, of sorts an equal with the dark power, probably not in the same way, but often will have some special knowledge/ skill possibly that the other hadn't though about/didn't consider important or just couldn't gain... which will eventually lead to their doom...
I think this is in order to show everyone that, in spite of who you are, you can do great things...

Then there is also the fact that the dark often will look at power one way, in the ruling, controling, sense of the word, where physical/magical power, big armies/weapons are the most important... but as we learn there are more to power than treath/terror ruling the dark often will go with, and eventually the good powers show themselves stronger and the good win!

I think the term "underdog" might hold a large significance to this discussion. In the "dog eat dog" world, an underdog challenges the "order" and "establishment" embodied by the "Alpha" : and when successful, paves the way for a new way of looking at things which provides growth for the entire group. We cheer for the underdog partly because there is courage in humility when someone stands up to an adversary, due to the personal risk that is involved in taking such a stand. An underdog is not a bully. A bully (like both Tom and Dudley) will often take advantage of a compliant situation in which there is truly no adversary, while an underdog risks him or her self - in spite of the odds stacked against them.

This isn't to say that a former underdog will not become a bully when it feels its "territory" is being challenged at a later time. Even in the Bible, as someone mentioned before, David, the former underdog, falls from grace when his desire dictates how his power is wielded as shown in the story of the married Bathsheba...and how he "wins" her by placing her husband at risk to ultimately meet his death in the front lines of battle. This is why I think it might be interesting for many people to find out how the hero ends up turning out in the future: does he still embody the hero, or does he just fall into the rut that so many heroes fell into before him?

Perhaps part of the point of the entire HP series is that Voldemort's "strength" is really his weakness.

In the Muggle world being buff would help win a fight. Being strong in the wizarding world wouldn't help that much because as long as you are strong internally (and as long as you have much intellect) you will be powerful enough to destroy a great wizard, even Voldemort.

I agree with Beach Lover, there's always that stereo type on people whom are buff, well I guess that can relate well to those in the muggle world. as for the wizarding world, it really does depend up on the intelect...although it could also depend on that in the muggle world.
so I'd have to say, It's both for the muggle world. and just more so of intelect in the wizarding world.

I think everyone can see themselves in Harry at some point, ie, everyone has been through some kind of struggle in their life and people like reading about the underdog, and how they overcome their struggles. If one doesn't relate to the characters in some way, I think you will lose readers right from the beginning. It's a good read if it teaches an underlying message, eg like the 'moral of the story' is....etc etc
I thought it was very clichéd, but as complex as we may read the plot to be, it all comes down to the importance of love. On a very high level, Harry's story is a simple one (well, that's what i think)

I think you bring up a good point here, SillySquib. Readers definitely like to read about underdogs and watch them prevail in the end. However, I think Harry developed into more than the underdog. In DH we really see him mature and come full circle. He came to grips with who he was and what he had to do in order to defeat Voldemort. And sacrificing himself was was a frightening concept, but a task which he undertook willingly. So I think Rowling's story is as simple a thing as teaching us about love; but understanding and accepting the power of love is truly what she conveyed and I believe this was exemplified through Harry's character.