I wondered vaguely about this while I was reading but assumed it would be explained-- as far as I know, it never was.
The first memory in chapter 17 "A Sluggish Memory" is almost entirely in parseltongue (isn't it?). How did Dumbledore understand what they were saying?
Full Version: Parseltongue translator?
Perhaps he has learned, in all his many years, to understand Parseltongue. Even if he does not have the ability to speak it, J.K. never mentions whether you can learn to understand it - although of course it would be difficult.
Who again's memory was tht? If it was someone who could speak parsletounge, than it was their memory and they would experience it in their heads in english, it seems like from the descriptions given by Harry, he didn't know he was doing it.
I think when DD got Morfin's memory in Azkaban he probably got Morfin to translate it or give him an idea of what he was saying. Otherwise I don't see how DD could understand Parseltounge. I don't think it's something you learn. You're just born with it.
Magicalme, you're probably right. I'm guessing that in the same way that Harry can usually tell that parseltongue is being spoken even though his brain automatically translates it to english, Morfin's memory would have everything translated to english, but you could tell that they were speaking parseltongue.
Does that make sense? :blink:
And it's not like Harry would be able to tell the difference...
Does that make sense? :blink:
And it's not like Harry would be able to tell the difference...
DD might understand it but proably doesn't speak it.
I think the only way you can understand it is to speak it. I agree with magicalme and pychotickitten!
QUOTE(imoen4ever @ July 23 2005,14:59 )
Perhaps he has learned, in all his many years, to understand Parseltongue. Even if he does not have the ability to speak it, J.K. never mentions whether you can learn to understand it - although of course it would be difficult.
I don't think you can learn to speak the language of an animal, just as it is impossible for humans to learn to speak *doggish* (barking) and *cattish* (meowing)
Know what I mean?
From Fleur's english and Krum's I don't think wizards have better language learning skills and methods than muggles.
Dumbledore must be an excellent linguist if he has learned Mermish. I wouldn't be surprised if he could speak Parseltongue.
I bet it was translated in morfin's memory. i doubt Dumbledore could speak Parseltoungue just because it's such a rare talent. Or maybe Dumbledore didn't know exactly what was being said. But i think it was probably translated like it was stated above. That would make sense.
it's definitely not translated in the memory:
-dumbledore says "i suppose you understand what they're saying harry"
-JKR said in the interview that the pensieve shows memories how they happened
DD understanding parseltongue, learning parseltongue, asking morfin what was said or not understanding what was said at all are all possibilities. From the way he said it my guess is he doesn't understand it. It's not like something really relevant is said in parseltongue is there?
-dumbledore says "i suppose you understand what they're saying harry"
-JKR said in the interview that the pensieve shows memories how they happened
DD understanding parseltongue, learning parseltongue, asking morfin what was said or not understanding what was said at all are all possibilities. From the way he said it my guess is he doesn't understand it. It's not like something really relevant is said in parseltongue is there?
Are we sure Dumbledore knew what was said? The scene could still tell somebody a lot even if they didn't know the meaning of all the words. Dumbledore could have pieced a lot together from facts about what happened afterwards, as well. Like Merope fancying the man who rode past on the coach.
yes i dont think the memory is translated to english in morfin's mind. how could morfin translate the words to english when he doesnt even know english? that just doesnt make sense. my first language is enlish but my parents speak to me in a different language and i understand it. in my head i dont translate the words to english... you just kind of understand it somehow...
not quite sure how it works in the brain but ya...
not quite sure how it works in the brain but ya...
There is no reason Dumbledore should NOT be a parseltongue, btw. I believe he states that, although it is a rare gift, that there are parseltongues who are not evil. I don't see how anyone could think he would attribute such import to a memory he couldn't understand.
I don't think that DD is a Plarseltoung because otherwise he would have told Harry in year two, when he was afraid he was evil! ..and I doubt you could learn to understand but not speak a language.
Merpeople are part human, so their language would be part human also. That's why DD can speak it.
My guess is that if, let's say, Harry spoke to DD in Parseltoung, DD, being such a good legilimens, could just get the gist of what Harry is saying without having to understand it word by word.
The question is wether you can read the mind of someone in a memory. Again this is guesswork, but I think that, since it is a sincere end complete reproduction of what happened in the past, you would be able to pic up what the person was thinking at the time, but you wouldn't be able to force the person to bring up in the mind things they aren't thinking about (which is what Snape did on Harry).
Do you agree? It makes sense to me..
Merpeople are part human, so their language would be part human also. That's why DD can speak it.
My guess is that if, let's say, Harry spoke to DD in Parseltoung, DD, being such a good legilimens, could just get the gist of what Harry is saying without having to understand it word by word.
The question is wether you can read the mind of someone in a memory. Again this is guesswork, but I think that, since it is a sincere end complete reproduction of what happened in the past, you would be able to pic up what the person was thinking at the time, but you wouldn't be able to force the person to bring up in the mind things they aren't thinking about (which is what Snape did on Harry).
Do you agree? It makes sense to me..
I do not think that Dumbledore spoke Parseltongue. I think if he could speak it, he would have told Harry. In CoS, Harry was the only person @ Hogwarts who was able to hear the Basilik. I can't see Dumbledore hearing "Kill!" and doing nothing to protect the Hogwarts students. When Dumbledore showed the memory to Harry, he pointed out to him that they were conversing partially in Parseltongue. I think he wanted Harry to note that he was one of the few people still alive who could understand that part of the conversation. The MOM wizard was totally unaware of what they were saying; he just heard hissing. Dumbledore could have:
1. gotten Morphin to translate those parts later when he retrieved Morphin's memory.
2. figured out what they were saying through watching their body language and actions.
3. Researched old documents of Salazar Slytherin and translated the Parseltongue parts.
1. gotten Morphin to translate those parts later when he retrieved Morphin's memory.
2. figured out what they were saying through watching their body language and actions.
3. Researched old documents of Salazar Slytherin and translated the Parseltongue parts.
there was a thread on this last night - it was several pages long and had some interesting theories in it. maybe you could do a forum search to find it?
Actually, I don't think it matters that Dumbledore doesn't speak parseltongue, because there isn't much hissed that he couldn't work out anyway from other things he knew. The whole scene is an introduction to the characters (for Harry as well as us), and you can pick that up without needing to understand parseltongue.
Simple.... He used legilimens, the first time he went through the memory alone. Dumbledore probably went through that memory many times, to gather much information before bringing it to Harry.
QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug. 14 2005,12:04 )
Actually, I don't think it matters that Dumbledore doesn't speak parseltongue, because there isn't much hissed that he couldn't work out anyway from other things he knew. The whole scene is an introduction to the characters (for Harry as well as us), and you can pick that up without needing to understand parseltongue.
I agree. DD is a very intelligent man and in both scenes where parseltongue is used, even someone with a general feel for emotion and body language could deduce the general meaning. Not to mention, DD already knew much more than Harry did, so I think those memories were for Harry's benefit and not DD's.
QUOTE(akcp @ Aug. 14 2005,9:07 am)
Dumbledore could have:
1. gotten Morphin to translate those parts later when he retrieved Morphin's memory.
2. figured out what they were saying through watching their body language and actions.
3. Researched old documents of Salazar Slytherin and translated the Parseltongue parts.
1. gotten Morphin to translate those parts later when he retrieved Morphin's memory.
2. figured out what they were saying through watching their body language and actions.
3. Researched old documents of Salazar Slytherin and translated the Parseltongue parts.
Don't forget, Dumbledore knows Legilimancy.
Besides, Dumbledore is used to guessing and operating in the dark. Just look at Trelawney's Second Prophecy. Read what Harry tells Dumbledore in the next chapter. "Trelawney went funny and said some scary stuff." Oh yes, that is specific. Although that would not be enough for me, that was enough for Dumbledore. He didn't need to extract the memory from Harry and put it in the pensive to understand the full version, he heard Harry's bit, and that was enough for him to guess the rest. I would not want to guess such an important thing as a prophecy, but that's Dumbledore, isn't it? The same logic applies to the pensive memory, I think, where he guessed most of it using various clues and such.
QUOTE(Spinks @ July 23 2005,19:21 )
Are we sure Dumbledore knew what was said?
Nope, we aren't. There isnt' really any indication that I picked up that he knew what was said in Parseltongue, and the interchange between Morfin and the Ministry official were in English. The rest Dumbledore may not have understood, but it would not take too much to figure out the gist of what was being said.
Well, I think maybe In the memory, he could tell what was going on by what everyone was doing. Otherwise, he could have used Oclumens and read Harry's mind or someone else's mind (can you do that to a memory-person?) and found out what was being said.
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