Full Version: Extra person in Godric's Hollow?
JK says in her interview -- or doesn't say is more like it -- that there was someone else there in Godric's Hollow the night LV tried to kill Harry.......... So who is it? Snape?
Maybe Peter Pettigrew?
could be any of the death eaters but whoever it is will know exactly what happened.....this could be helpful
do you think that memory can be extracted from Harry and seen in the pensieve?
Maybe it was RAB? Maybe that's what made him decide to switch the horcrux...? Or did it say that he was killed before? I dont remember
I agree with firebolter that Wormtail seems an obvious choice.
He was their secret keeper and it would therefore make sense for him to bring Voldemort there.
Given the endless speculation about Snape and why he turned away from the death eaters - it also could have been him and seeing what happened at Godric Hollow was part of the catalyst to change him (if you buy that he ever did change of course).
He was their secret keeper and it would therefore make sense for him to bring Voldemort there.
Given the endless speculation about Snape and why he turned away from the death eaters - it also could have been him and seeing what happened at Godric Hollow was part of the catalyst to change him (if you buy that he ever did change of course).
R.A.B... I think 
Who knows? I can't wait 3 more years until the seventh book comes out... when you think about it, it can't take less than three, because she'll only start writing it more profoundly in 2006, and it'll take her, say, at least an entire year to write it, and then she'll go over it many many times because she'll want it to be perfect, and because she won't want to part with it, and because she'll want to make sure she's answered every question, so by the time that's happened, another 6-10 months will have gone by, and then it'll take another couple months of editing and printing, so it'll take 2 and a half to 3 years, and even if it's 2 years and a half, they'll publish it in the summer, right, so I think it's healthy to expect this book to come out in bout 3 years time.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I CANT WAIT I CANT WAIT... yet my life will be so empty without Harry and his adventures... SNIFF
Who knows? I can't wait 3 more years until the seventh book comes out... when you think about it, it can't take less than three, because she'll only start writing it more profoundly in 2006, and it'll take her, say, at least an entire year to write it, and then she'll go over it many many times because she'll want it to be perfect, and because she won't want to part with it, and because she'll want to make sure she's answered every question, so by the time that's happened, another 6-10 months will have gone by, and then it'll take another couple months of editing and printing, so it'll take 2 and a half to 3 years, and even if it's 2 years and a half, they'll publish it in the summer, right, so I think it's healthy to expect this book to come out in bout 3 years time.NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I CANT WAIT I CANT WAIT... yet my life will be so empty without Harry and his adventures... SNIFF
Thats a good idea, idont know how far back in a persons life you can go, but i imagine all that would be extracted would be what Harry experienced when the Dementors came near him, screams, laughter and green light. As for the other person in Godrics Hollow, I have no clue but imagine it will turn out to be very important.
Theres no way itll take 3 years, the fifth came out last summer, didn't it?
if it was wormtail....... then why not just say it? it doesn't make sense not to tell us something so ordinary as it being wormtail -- that would be too obvious that it was only him
QUOTE
do you think that memory can be extracted from Harry and seen in the pensieve?
Yeah I think it could, and even Jo said that you notice things in your memories that you might not have seen first time round...
Yeah, it couldn't have been someone that obvious if she didn't say who it was.
LOL I thought the fifth came out last summer too, but alas, it was two years ago, dear. I know it's hard to accept the truth, but for your own sanity, I would suggest not to expect the seventh book to come out before the summer of 2008. OH HOW AWFUL (I'm just preparing myself mentally...) 
Yeah, Harry keeps remembering more, started as just light, the cackling, then screams.
[quote]but i imagine all that would be extracted would be what Harry experienced when the Dementors came near him, screams, laughter and green light[quote]
-- but JK said in the interview that the pensieve is used to recreate the scene as it actually happens -- that is the magic of the pensieve - so you can go back and look at the things that happened again and see it from a 3rd person perspective.
-- but JK said in the interview that the pensieve is used to recreate the scene as it actually happens -- that is the magic of the pensieve - so you can go back and look at the things that happened again and see it from a 3rd person perspective.
I think I might die from the plethera of questions I have and the anxiety of the unknown if it is that long, boo hoo.
At the moment I'm thinking Peter, too. He was the Secret Keeper and, afterwards, the news of Voldemort's destruction seemed to reach him sooner than anybody else. He was already doing a runner when Sirius tried to contact him.
QUOTE(sammolisa @ July 23 2005,15:28 )
if it was wormtail....... then why not just say it? it doesn't make sense not to tell us something so ordinary as it being wormtail -- that would be too obvious that it was only him
I agree, it wouldn't be a big deal if it was Wormtail. And since he was the secret keeper for the Potters, shouldn't it be assumed he was there? Doesn't he have to show LV where the house is? Eh, idk... you can write it down too... hmm
Thats why i think its Snape or RAB
I think that it couldn't have been wormtail..... i mean harry has heard the scene thanks to dementers and I don't know about you guys or james but if one of my best friends walked into my house accompined by voldermort i would def. have something to say to him and james nor lily says nothing to anybody other vd.... personly I think it is RAB because i believe that he is regalus and siruis says that he died 15 years before.... harry was 15 at that time and he was a year old when the attack happened so at the most he would have died like 13 or 14 years before
Really, thats awesome, hope it happens, I'd like to know what really happened inm detail
Sorry that last post was about the wait till the next book, i havent figured out qoting yet.
maybe R.A.B. was there and he was the one who killed James -- hence when Sirius said he had trouble with what was being asked of him.............he wanted out. -Or maybe he was asked to kill him and wouldn't
magicalme999-- quotes
-- yeah me either -- (doh!)
-- yeah me either -- (doh!)
I think R.A.B would make sense, except that the events in Godric's Hollow marked the end of Voldie (for a while at least) and if R.A.B is who we think he is, wasn't he supposedly killed for trying to leave the DE while LV was still in power?
Maybe someone like Bellatrix, she seems to follow LV everywhere, it would give Harry even more reason to hate her.
Maybe someone like Bellatrix, she seems to follow LV everywhere, it would give Harry even more reason to hate her.
true -- i didn't think about that -- so I guess it wouldn't be R.A.B.
Okay, pretty far fetched theory here, but what if the other person was Snape? There is a whole thing about the voice that Harry heard in the penseive not necessarily being James (who said 'Lily, take Harry and run') so maybe it was Snape? I'm practically convinced that he was in love with Lily, and we know that he didn't know who it was that Voldemort would go after when he told him about the prophecy. What if he found out at the last minute and rushed to try and stop him? I know there are obvious problems with this theory, like why wouldn't Voldemort kill Snape for betraying him. Ummmmm.....some kinda polyjuice potion? I don't know but I like this theory so someone please help me out with it???
QUOTE
Okay, pretty far fetched theory here, but what if the other person was Snape? There is a whole thing about the voice that Harry heard in the penseive not necessarily being James (who said 'Lily, take Harry and run') so maybe it was Snape? I'm practically convinced that he was in love with Lily, and we know that he didn't know who it was that Voldemort would go after when he told him about the prophecy. What if he found out at the last minute and rushed to try and stop him? I know there are obvious problems with this theory, like why wouldn't Voldemort kill Snape for betraying him.
This is my feeling too. It might explain why Snape changed over to Dumbledore's side, we know Voldemort was going to spare Lily, perhaps on Snape's request and perhaps Snape was so devastated when Lily was murdered that he turned to dd and offered to be a spy for him. The information he gave dd then on why changed sides was that he loved Lily and dd believing in the great power of love accepted that...
obviously there are holes in this theory but it was my initial idea when I heard someone else might have been there at Godric's Hollow
Oh and I meant to add there that Voldemort couldn't have killed Snape because the spell rebounded off Harry leaving Vl powerless to do anything much
i was thinking that Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow alone, like he did when he killed his father and uncle. but now i believe it was Pettigrew- to show the place as the secret keeper. anyway someone must have picked Voldie's wand up!
Wormtail would make the most sense, but the other top runners in my opinion would be Lucius Malfoy and Severus Snape. We know that LV trusted Lucies enough to leave the diary with him. I had thought Bellatrix but I'm not sure that fits with Bellatrix being so desperate to find him.
Whoever it was, that mysterious person is likely the one to return LV's wand to him. In all likelyhood that means Wormtail.
Whoever it was, that mysterious person is likely the one to return LV's wand to him. In all likelyhood that means Wormtail.
i don´t know who could be there.. maybe someone was hidden, maybe went to tell them to run.. i believe that RAB died before that and he knew about the prophecy.. or he was close to Dumbledore, or he was a DE that was close enough to LV to know about it.. it seems that the DE didn´t know it before the book five.. so, could be Peter Petigrew, for sure, could be Snape too or someone that knew it would be impossible to defeat LV and decided keep watching him kill the Potter´s, could be Slughorn...Sirius arrived after, so it could not be him. But that leaves many ways to it.
This question has been driving me crazy for a while...
How did they KNOW that Voldemort tried to kill Harry? Who could have told Dumbledore, Sirius, Hagrid, whoever, what had happened? How do we know that he used Avada Kevada on him? What if was trying some "new" spell on him that backfired? What if was trying to insert a Horcrux into the baby Harry? Someone else HAD to have been there.
How did they KNOW that Voldemort tried to kill Harry? Who could have told Dumbledore, Sirius, Hagrid, whoever, what had happened? How do we know that he used Avada Kevada on him? What if was trying some "new" spell on him that backfired? What if was trying to insert a Horcrux into the baby Harry? Someone else HAD to have been there.
No it was definetely James that told Lily to take Harry and run...remember in the first movie, JK Rowling wrote the scene where we saw glimpses of Voldemort entering the Potter home and killing Harry's parents. I don't take the movies as the real thing but I mean she wrote the scene and she wouldn't mislead us...but since it was glimpses I wonder if perhaps someone else...or something else
dun dun dun!
dun dun dun!
sorry, but what is godric´s hollow? and there are graves? because harry said at the end he couldvisit his parents graves there.
Book 7 has to come out in 2007. I say this because if it's after that then the movie produceers will have nothing to go on, or they'll have the script and we won't have the book. This of course will cause MAJOR leaks to the plot and it will end up really messy. So I think that the book HAS to come out before they can start on the final movie. I'm sure they've already started on the fifth movie now, and will be done from the holidays next year. However we don't know if they will skip a year of production to wait for the kids to grow a little bit more. who knows.
gordrics hollow is the town where harry and his parents lived
It very well be RAB. Just think. He sees voldie get hitt by the curse. He thinks LV is still alive by the horcruxes so he tries to destroy them. He says when you meet you match. Could he have ment harry since supposedly he was there. If you read the message it sounds like he only knows of one. It could be someone found out he had betrayed LV and killed him without getting LV permission because they thought he was dead. Also some of the death eaters say they were looking for him. Could he have told his most trusted DEs of the horcruxes. Does anyone know at the cemitary when he came back and he was talking about the DEs did he talk about anyone betraying them and being killed?
I agree with some of the previous posts. I think it was Snape at Godric's Hollow. I think Voldemort trying to save Lily was very out of character for such a cold blooded murderer. He could have had an agreement with Snape. When she was murdered, as he truly loved her he turned to Dumbledore. Is this farfetched??
RAB must have been killed before b/c it was on V orders and he wasn't giving any untill he got his body back.
Wormtail only had to divulge the address he didn't actually have to point to the house Snape? if that was the case, than why would V take Snape back after he might have tried to help Lily.
Something to think about: Why didn't the person (if he supported V) try to get him into a new body right away, or at least let ppl know he was still alive? [U][/U]
Wormtail only had to divulge the address he didn't actually have to point to the house Snape? if that was the case, than why would V take Snape back after he might have tried to help Lily.
Something to think about: Why didn't the person (if he supported V) try to get him into a new body right away, or at least let ppl know he was still alive? [U][/U]
I think that it could have been Snape, as well as Wormtail. She didn't say that there was only one person there. Just hinted that he wasn't there alone. My theory is that Wormtail ran as soon as James was killed. Perhaps he stayed outside so that James and Lily didn't know he was the one that betrayed him. Snape and LV go inside and LV kills James. Lily takes Harry and runs upstairs. Harry doesn't recognize the voice telling Lily to take Harry and run because he never truly remembers hearing his father's voice. ---unless I'm wrong about that part. Not sure where it says that Harry heard a voice that he didn't recognize.
After LV kills Lily and tries to kill Harry, perhaps Snape, takes Harry back to Hogwarts. Sirius finds wormtail outside and thinks he kills him. By then, Aurors show up arrest Sirius and you know the rest. I still wonder though where the rest of the OoP was. Were Neville's parents in hiding as well?
I am so anxious to see what remains at Godric's Hollow. Wouldn't it be great if JK writes an entire chapter about the night they died? I mean, in Phil Stone there is that, but we really don't get that many details. Perhaps Harry can pull the memory out and view it in the Penseive.
After LV kills Lily and tries to kill Harry, perhaps Snape, takes Harry back to Hogwarts. Sirius finds wormtail outside and thinks he kills him. By then, Aurors show up arrest Sirius and you know the rest. I still wonder though where the rest of the OoP was. Were Neville's parents in hiding as well?
I am so anxious to see what remains at Godric's Hollow. Wouldn't it be great if JK writes an entire chapter about the night they died? I mean, in Phil Stone there is that, but we really don't get that many details. Perhaps Harry can pull the memory out and view it in the Penseive.
Oh, I forgot. As for R.A.B., I think he was already dead. Just because of the way Sirius speaks of him in OoP.
If there was someone else there, then they had to know about the switch because how else could they have got there without wormtail telling them the location.
QUOTE(BellaIreland @ July 24 2005,12:15 )
My theory is that Wormtail ran as soon as James was killed. Perhaps he stayed outside so that James and Lily didn't know he was the one that betrayed him.
Well, they had to have known it was Peter who betrayed them... if LV is at their door that means their secret keeper, Peter, told him.
QUOTE(BellaIreland @ July 24 2005,12:15 )
After LV kills Lily and tries to kill Harry, perhaps Snape, takes Harry back to Hogwarts.
That would explain why DD trusted him, but... didn't the book say Hagrid picked Harry up from the house's remains himself?
QUOTE(BellaIreland @ July 24 2005,12:15 )
Were Neville's parents in hiding as well?
I've been wondering the same thing! Where they insane BEFORE LV heard 1/2 the prophecy... or did he make them insane when he was lookin and couldnt find Neville?
QUOTE(BellaIreland @ July 24 2005,12:15 )
Perhaps Harry can pull the memory out and view it in the Penseive.
I think that's what's going to happen... who ever was outside of Godrics Hollow will be the one to give up the memory and show Harry what really happened that night.
We know that Sirius and later Hagrid were the first two on the scene after the murder. Sirius came on his motorbike and was presumably alone. If any Order members had been present in the house during the murder they would have had no reason to flee when Sirius arrived. Since the house was empty when Sirius got there, I think it's safe to assume that whoever else was in the house was a DE. I'm guessing it was Pettigrew, since he alone knew the location of the Potters, and it might explain Sirius' fury in the aftermath of the murder, chasing down Pettigrew.
Sirius turned up pretty soon after LV had killed Lily and James and it was him who gave Harry to Hagrid to take to DD on his motorbike. Sirius never mentioned anyone else being around, so they must have already fled.
on the matter of how do we know that it was Avada Kedavra that killed James and Lily and backfired on Harry I think it would be possible to deduce this from the scene of the crime, even without an eyewitness. James and Lily would show no obvious signs of a cause of death as A.K doesn't leave any. Also Harry remembers a green light (which links to A.K) and i imagine the Dark Mark would have been left over the house.
on the matter of how do we know that it was Avada Kedavra that killed James and Lily and backfired on Harry I think it would be possible to deduce this from the scene of the crime, even without an eyewitness. James and Lily would show no obvious signs of a cause of death as A.K doesn't leave any. Also Harry remembers a green light (which links to A.K) and i imagine the Dark Mark would have been left over the house.
Well would there have been a Dark Mark? Because LV was taken down before he could finish his murdering spree...
And random question... how do you get the Dark Mark down? Does it have to fade away? Is there a spell to get rid of it?
And random question... how do you get the Dark Mark down? Does it have to fade away? Is there a spell to get rid of it?
Leaping in with my very first post. Bear with me, it might sound a bit wacky 
: does anyone wonder about what Dumbledore was saying when he was drinking the potion in the cave? It jumped out at me that he was saying what might have been said by someone who witnessed James and Lily's murder at Godric's Hollow. I'm in the camp that believes Snape loved Lily and was devastated by the results of his betrayal. In the cave, DD's words are "don't hurt them" and the tone is pleading and tortured. Perhaps someone (Voldemort) was forcing someone else (Snape?), likely with the use of dark magic, to witness the killing of someone he loved (Lily; but if Snape was under a painful enough curse forcing him to watch, he could've said "them"). It may be a stretch, but it wouldn't surprise me if even in his own suffering DD was trying to pass on crucial information to Harry. Does anyone else have thoughts about why JKR had him say these things just then? :ponder: Yea, I said it was a whacky theory. Whether it holds up or not, I think Snape was at Godric's Hollow trying to save Lily and was so shatterd by the events that he went over to Dumbledore, to whom he would've confessed all this.
: does anyone wonder about what Dumbledore was saying when he was drinking the potion in the cave? It jumped out at me that he was saying what might have been said by someone who witnessed James and Lily's murder at Godric's Hollow. I'm in the camp that believes Snape loved Lily and was devastated by the results of his betrayal. In the cave, DD's words are "don't hurt them" and the tone is pleading and tortured. Perhaps someone (Voldemort) was forcing someone else (Snape?), likely with the use of dark magic, to witness the killing of someone he loved (Lily; but if Snape was under a painful enough curse forcing him to watch, he could've said "them"). It may be a stretch, but it wouldn't surprise me if even in his own suffering DD was trying to pass on crucial information to Harry. Does anyone else have thoughts about why JKR had him say these things just then? :ponder: Yea, I said it was a whacky theory. Whether it holds up or not, I think Snape was at Godric's Hollow trying to save Lily and was so shatterd by the events that he went over to Dumbledore, to whom he would've confessed all this.
yeah maybe there wouldnt have been a dark mark there, am not sure how you get rid of a dark mark. I dont think JK's actually said.
another thought...has anyone considered the fact that the other person in Godrics Hollow was not connected to the Death Eaters and LV and was just some other wizard who lived there but decided to keep quiet, but maybe remembers seeing something or hearing something and Harry will have to be a detective and find out who they were, it may a totally new character.
another thought...has anyone considered the fact that the other person in Godrics Hollow was not connected to the Death Eaters and LV and was just some other wizard who lived there but decided to keep quiet, but maybe remembers seeing something or hearing something and Harry will have to be a detective and find out who they were, it may a totally new character.
Hedwigger7 i totally agree and have been wondering why DD said those things when he was drinking the poison. I agree it relates to some memory and my intial thought on reading the first time was that it had something to do with Snape. It must have been LV that killed Lily and James though as they came back out of his wand in GOF.
I forgot about Hagrid and the whole flying bike thing. And, DUH! about Lily and James knowing Peter was the one that betrayed them. If Sirius truly didn't know where Lily and James were hiding, then how did he know to get to Godric's Hollow? Did he have a tracking spell on Wormtail? I still think that there is a lot we'll find out when book 7 comes out. Neville's parents were tortured by Bellatrix. It says so in GOF when Harry discovers DD penseive.
As for Snape loving Lily.... He took out significant memories that he wouldn't want Harry to see in the OoP when they were studying Occlumency. Hence the one where Harry could get a kick out of seeing his father and the other's make fun of Severus. But, he does call Lily a Mudblood in one of them when she is taking up for him. Kind of far fetched that he'd fall in love with her. But, this would be her writing style. I don't know though. It would kind of be like Draco falling for Hermione. (dodges thrown objects from D/H shippers.)
But, on the other hand, Slughorn states that Harry's mother was awesome at potions. Maybe her and Severus bonded over that class or something. I can see them competing like Draco and Hermione to be the best Potions student. Maybe he was in love with her ability. Perhaps love from afar? She obviously was in love with James. Maybe he wa a bit obsessed with her. For all we know, she could have been better at Potions than he was.
As for Snape loving Lily.... He took out significant memories that he wouldn't want Harry to see in the OoP when they were studying Occlumency. Hence the one where Harry could get a kick out of seeing his father and the other's make fun of Severus. But, he does call Lily a Mudblood in one of them when she is taking up for him. Kind of far fetched that he'd fall in love with her. But, this would be her writing style. I don't know though. It would kind of be like Draco falling for Hermione. (dodges thrown objects from D/H shippers.)
But, on the other hand, Slughorn states that Harry's mother was awesome at potions. Maybe her and Severus bonded over that class or something. I can see them competing like Draco and Hermione to be the best Potions student. Maybe he was in love with her ability. Perhaps love from afar? She obviously was in love with James. Maybe he wa a bit obsessed with her. For all we know, she could have been better at Potions than he was.
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