Full Version: Who are the Peverells?
Okay so i was rereading all of the pensive scenes from hpb and i found something odd in the first one. I guess i just assumed that the ring was slyrthines too but it wasn't! It has the Peverell Coat of arms! (pg 207 us edition) It is probably another pure blood family related to the gaunts but they are never said to be the last decendants of this line as they are of slytherine. Who else could be a Peverell? Or could someone like Ravenclaw or Gryffndor be related? Please share your theories!
Lexicon has him (family) listed but with no discription....not sure myself.
yeah i checked that too. nothing listed. it sounds familiar, but i'm not sure why. i think we're agreed on the ring being a relic of slytherin's tho, are we not? dd has said that, hasn't he *roots thru her copy of HBP frantically*
oh yeah sorry - locket was a slytherin heirloom - i got confused. *blushes furiously*
come on guys... somebody has got to have a theory!
well i thought it might ring a bell from the black family tree of from the other members of the Order present in that old photo moody shows harry. have now trawled thru book 5 and it is in neither. i think i was mixing it up with the prewitt's. so perhaps we haven't heard of the peverells before after all. 
A theory is impossible because there is one and only one canon mention of the Peverell's - the one you referenced. It is not a Gaunt ring, nor is it associated with Slytherin. Suffice it to say that it is a mystery.
I should add that we know that the Gaunts were the descendents of Slytherin and that the Smiths are the descendents of Hufflepuff. We can speculate that the Peverell's are/were the descendents of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor.
great speculation! it would put something of ravenclaw or gryffindor on the list AND with something we already know about. Gaunt said that it was worth a lot and many wanted it.
nah - not possible. IF the ring were an heirloom of ravenclaws or gryffindors, dumbledore wud have known about it and ticked it off the list. there's no way he wudn't have known something like that - he's sure to have done his homework. and he already stated that the only relic he cud find of gryffindors was that sword. and he's pretty sure LV never had a chance to tamper with that one. the ring was important merely because it was gaunt's. i don't think it goes any further than that. it's one of his own family heirlooms - not one connected to the founders, IMO.
QUOTE(miss_mugwump @ July 25 2005,17:19 )
nah - not possible. IF the ring were an heirloom of ravenclaws or gryffindors, dumbledore wud have known about it and ticked it off the list. there's no way he wudn't have known something like that - he's sure to have done his homework. and he already stated that the only relic he cud find of gryffindors was that sword. and he's pretty sure LV never had a chance to tamper with that one. the ring was important merely because it was gaunt's. i don't think it goes any further than that. it's one of his own family heirlooms - not one connected to the founders, IMO.
You have to make a distinction between a relic and an heirloom. A relic is something associated with a deceased person. An heirloom is something (usually of quality) handed down from one generation to the next. For example, the Sword of Gryffindor is a relic of Godric Gryffindor's, but it was not his heirloom unless he inherited it from his family (which is doubtful). If there are/were heirs of Gryffindor, his sword would be his relic and his family's heirloom. You see the distinction? So, it is possible, if the Peverell's are/were the descendents of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, for the ring to be a family heirloom without it being a relic of either of those two Hogwarts founders. In other words, the ring was made by the family and for the family *after* Gryffindor or Ravenclaw lived. We simply do not know. One thing is for certain: Rowling does nothing accidentally. Why mention this family at all if it is not significant? Why complicate matters if it does not matter? Unless she comments on it via her website or an interview, the Peverell family will remain a mystery until Book 7. Again, we can speculate, but there is not enough canon to theorize.
Okay, I did some research on Peverell. It is both a family (crest has lion on it) and a place.
The family Peverell has connection to the King Arthur Legend and the remains of the castle built there is called "the white tower"
The family who founded the city/town of Peverell fought with William the conqueror as did Fortesque. Fortesque family began with a man saving William's life and thus taking the surname Forrtesque (meaning strong shield). There had been one headmaster and one merchant in Diagon Alley named Fortesque.
The Pervelle coat of arms has a lion on it.
That's what I can find.
The family Peverell has connection to the King Arthur Legend and the remains of the castle built there is called "the white tower"
The family who founded the city/town of Peverell fought with William the conqueror as did Fortesque. Fortesque family began with a man saving William's life and thus taking the surname Forrtesque (meaning strong shield). There had been one headmaster and one merchant in Diagon Alley named Fortesque.
The Pervelle coat of arms has a lion on it.
That's what I can find.
Wow...the lion thing is pretty interesting...maybe that's why Florean Fortescue has gone missing? Maybe it's something to do with Merlin or whatever. OR maybe the lion iteself is an indicator of Gryffindor? I don't think this is the last we have heard of this family line.
wow! great research drooble...wasn't arthurian (sp?) legend mentioned in JKR's interview? it's ringing a bell... gotta go check
Here is the site with the Arthur connection here
Hhmmm, I don't think Riddle would've worn a relic of Gryffindor. I'd just assume that the ring was Gaunts mother's side? Do we know whether his mother or father was Slytherin's heir?
My idea was that Salazar Slytherin married a Peverell... and so after that all the Slytherins married Peverells... but I guess that wouldn't really work since they became known as the Gaunts....
Yeah, I guess Fortescue is a descendant of either Ravenclaw or Gryffindor... leaning to the later....
Yeah, I guess Fortescue is a descendant of either Ravenclaw or Gryffindor... leaning to the later....
QUOTE(Cairistiona @ July 26 2005,4:38 am)
Hhmmm, I don't think Riddle would've worn a relic of Gryffindor.
I think he would have.... LV doesn't seem to have a grudge against Gryffindor himself... just the people in the house... and seeing as it may be a relic of the founder... I don't see why he wouldn't picture it as a trophy, I think the Gaunts did....
I feel like I'm contradicting my self. I have also become quite confused....
It's an interesting question, and through all the clues (not many) the only thing for sure is that Peverell was a pure blood family - probably with the same values. I don't think the ring symbolizes a different house founder though - just my hunch. But I do think it's something Harry should look into a bit further. Hope he checks the lineage book in Grimmauld Place.
According to Wikipedia, Peverell is a district or neighborhood of Plymouth in Devon originally part of the manor of Weston Peverell, an area named in the Doomesday Book. Wikipedia has two references to the Doomesday Book, one is a census taken by William the Conqueror, which could be related to what Drooble mentioned , and the other is a 1993, (ISBN 0553351672) science fiction novel by American author Connie Willis. I don’t know if the name Peverell is mentioned in that book, but I am planning on finding out.
I simply thought the slytherin line must have had that for a surname before they married into the Gaunts. I don't think it was important.
but anyone related to voldemort could be very important
QUOTE(Professor_Nigellus @ Sep. 11 2005,9:54 am)
the other is a 1993, (ISBN 0553351672) science fiction novel by American author Connie Willis. I don’t know if the name Peverell is mentioned in that book, but I am planning on finding out.
Drat! That's the only Connie Willis novel I haven't read yet. You'll enjoy it, she has a wicked sense of humor. And though she is American, many of her novels and short stories are set in England, so I assume that her research would be thorough. Please do share what you find.
*looks for her copy of book 6* Just for reference, y'know.
This is what Marvolo Gaunt says about it:
"Centuries it's been in our family, that's how far back we go, and pure-blood all the way! Know how much I've been offered for this, with the Peverell coat of arms engraved in the stone?"
And it's an ugly, black-stoned ring. It's also large, rather clumsily made of what looked like gold, and was set with a heavy black stone that had cracked down the middle. Dumbledore seems to have no problem with wearing it.
"Clumsily made"? That's curious...
That thing about Arthurian legend is very interesting. I heard "Ginevra" comes from... um, the name of King Arthur's wife. And of course, there's Arthur Weasley...
edited because my s key is broken =\
This is what Marvolo Gaunt says about it:
"Centuries it's been in our family, that's how far back we go, and pure-blood all the way! Know how much I've been offered for this, with the Peverell coat of arms engraved in the stone?"
And it's an ugly, black-stoned ring. It's also large, rather clumsily made of what looked like gold, and was set with a heavy black stone that had cracked down the middle. Dumbledore seems to have no problem with wearing it.
"Clumsily made"? That's curious...
That thing about Arthurian legend is very interesting. I heard "Ginevra" comes from... um, the name of King Arthur's wife. And of course, there's Arthur Weasley...
edited because my s key is broken =\
Here's a reference to the Peverells Family....
....regarding Whittington Castle. The Peverells apparently were a very important family in the middle ages. I wonder if JKR is referring to these historical Peverells as being connected to Slytherin - the dates sure seem to match.
Whittington Castle is first mentioned in 1138, when it was fortified by the Norman Chief, William Peverell against King Stephen.
William Peverell, the reputed son of William the Conqueror, who had fought at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 was given property and lordships in Derbyshire and he was also awarded Whittington castle.
William Peverell demolished the original wooden castle and replaced it with one built from stone.
The Castles position on the border with wales gave it a valuable role in history and the Peverells held it until the twelfth century.
On the death of William Peverell, the castle passed to his son Pain Peverell, who in turn left it to his son William. This is where the male right to succession seemed to end, as William had no son, only two daughters.
In the early twelfth century, ownership of Whittington Castle passed from the Peverells to Warine de Metz who became founder of the line of Fulk-Warines. Warine de Metz was succeeded by Fulk Fitz Warine, his son, who was knighted by Henry the First.
http://www.shropshiretourism.info/castles/whittington/
....regarding Whittington Castle. The Peverells apparently were a very important family in the middle ages. I wonder if JKR is referring to these historical Peverells as being connected to Slytherin - the dates sure seem to match.
Whittington Castle is first mentioned in 1138, when it was fortified by the Norman Chief, William Peverell against King Stephen.
William Peverell, the reputed son of William the Conqueror, who had fought at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 was given property and lordships in Derbyshire and he was also awarded Whittington castle.
William Peverell demolished the original wooden castle and replaced it with one built from stone.
The Castles position on the border with wales gave it a valuable role in history and the Peverells held it until the twelfth century.
On the death of William Peverell, the castle passed to his son Pain Peverell, who in turn left it to his son William. This is where the male right to succession seemed to end, as William had no son, only two daughters.
In the early twelfth century, ownership of Whittington Castle passed from the Peverells to Warine de Metz who became founder of the line of Fulk-Warines. Warine de Metz was succeeded by Fulk Fitz Warine, his son, who was knighted by Henry the First.
http://www.shropshiretourism.info/castles/whittington/
QUOTE(GodricSmile @ Sep. 13 2005,10:55 )
William Peverell, the reputed son of William the Conqueror....
This might be it! The reason Gaunt mentions the Peverell name! What better way to prove one's prestigious and enduring lineage than to claim relation to the Peverells, the direct descendants of William the Conqueror!?!
QUOTE(GodricSmile @ Sep. 13 2005,10:55 )
On the death of William Peverell, the castle passed to his son Pain Peverell, who in turn left it to his son William.
Interesting name; Pain Peverell. Could this a clue to the family's Dark roots?
:ponder:
I did a genealogy search and there is a historical connection between the names Peverell and Gaunt...I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was interesting. So the Peverells probably did have a connection to Slytherin...perhaps Marvolo was a cousin?
Well, here's my two cents:
Peverelle was the surname of a man who was a bastard son of William the Conqueror.. His wife founded the church of St. Mary in High Peak. So it had to be founded AROUND A THOUSAND YEARS AGO if William Peverell is the son of William the Conqueror.
So, if the Gaunts are related to royalty, it would explain their pureblood mania even though William the Conqueror was himself a bastard.
Peverelle was the surname of a man who was a bastard son of William the Conqueror.. His wife founded the church of St. Mary in High Peak. So it had to be founded AROUND A THOUSAND YEARS AGO if William Peverell is the son of William the Conqueror.
So, if the Gaunts are related to royalty, it would explain their pureblood mania even though William the Conqueror was himself a bastard.
QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Sep. 13 2005,16:15 )
Well, here's my two cents:
....William the Conqueror was himself a bastard.
....William the Conqueror was himself a bastard.
Woa! Arianhrod, go easy on him!
What's he ever done to you?
j/kAnyway, great info! I was surprised to find that the Peverell name is based on historical fact.
QUOTE(CrumplehornedSnorckak @ Sep. 13 2005,11:14 )
I did a genealogy search and there is a historical connection between the names Peverell and Gaunt...I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was interesting.
I bet it was! The Gaunt name has a historical source also? And is linked to the Peverells?!? Please, CrumplehornedSnorckak, post this information here, if you can recall it.
I couldn't find the page where I found the link between Peverell and Gaunt, but...is that a badger? What if PEverell is a Hufflepuff relation, rather than a Slytherin? It fits that the Gaunts would want to collect these artifacts as well.
QUOTE
Quote (CrumplehornedSnorckak @ Sep. 13 2005,11:14 )
I did a genealogy search and there is a historical connection between the names Peverell and Gaunt...I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was interesting.
I bet it was! The Gaunt name has a historical source also? And is linked to the Peverells?!? Please, CrumplehornedSnorckak, post this information here, if you can recall it.
I did a genealogy search and there is a historical connection between the names Peverell and Gaunt...I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was interesting.
I bet it was! The Gaunt name has a historical source also? And is linked to the Peverells?!? Please, CrumplehornedSnorckak, post this information here, if you can recall it.
Please do! That would be very interesting indeed! I got to Peverelle but never got around to Gaunt. Maybe I'll do that tonight.
Look up the Peverell Family crest on google. It's quite revealing!!!
Good Job with the google find Dopeydwarf!
WOW! SO! I'm thinking Gaunt would be the remaining relatives of Slytherin and Peverell are the remaining relatives of Griffyndor! AKA DD is related to Godric Griffyndor!
And Drooble you got me thinking. I remember someone else started a thread where you can relate the Weasley men names to King Arthur. Maybe (I know it's been thought before) The Weasleys are related in some way to GG as well. Therefore being related to DD.
WOW! SO! I'm thinking Gaunt would be the remaining relatives of Slytherin and Peverell are the remaining relatives of Griffyndor! AKA DD is related to Godric Griffyndor!
And Drooble you got me thinking. I remember someone else started a thread where you can relate the Weasley men names to King Arthur. Maybe (I know it's been thought before) The Weasleys are related in some way to GG as well. Therefore being related to DD.
See the historical Peverell coat of arms in more detail:
http://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England1/Peverell_t.jpg
Now, see the Gryffindor coat of arms:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/houses/gryffindor.html
Notice the similarities. This shows that Slytherin and Gryffindor were related by blood as well as outlook at one point, and that the family was literally, as well as philosophically. We may be headed for the Potterverse equivalent of a “pox” on both their houses.
http://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England1/Peverell_t.jpg
Now, see the Gryffindor coat of arms:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/houses/gryffindor.html
Notice the similarities. This shows that Slytherin and Gryffindor were related by blood as well as outlook at one point, and that the family was literally, as well as philosophically. We may be headed for the Potterverse equivalent of a “pox” on both their houses.
QUOTE(Raissa @ Sep. 17 2005,12:18 am)
See the historical Peverell coat of arms in more detail:
http://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England1/Peverell_t.jpg
Now, see the Gryffindor coat of arms:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/houses/gryffindor.html
Notice the similarities. This shows that Slytherin and Gryffindor were related by blood as well as outlook at one point, and that the family was literally, as well as philosophically. We may be headed for the Potterverse equivalent of a “pox” on both their houses.
http://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England1/Peverell_t.jpg
Now, see the Gryffindor coat of arms:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/houses/gryffindor.html
Notice the similarities. This shows that Slytherin and Gryffindor were related by blood as well as outlook at one point, and that the family was literally, as well as philosophically. We may be headed for the Potterverse equivalent of a “pox” on both their houses.
They are extremely similar, almost a mirror image, except for the background. Very good sleuthing.
wow now that is interesting, there has to be something to this one, perhaps gryffandor changed his name?
For those who think it sounds fanilliar, I think it's just because Peverell sounds alot like Perenell (sp?), who is Nicolas flamel's wife!
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~j...e/Peverell.html coat of arms
Sampford Peverell* [status: a] in Sampford Peverell parish and Halberton hundred (EPNS, p551).
It appears in DB as Sanforde, held by Roger de Bully or Buslei, as a result of his wife being granted it by the queen (DB 27,1). In the reign of Henry I it was granted to William Peverell of Essex and Matilda his sister, who granted it to the antecedents of Hugh Peverell, who held it with Aller Peverell and Karswell in Broadhembury in 1212 in return for one knight's service (Fees, p96). In 1242 Hugh Peverell held three quarters of a fee in Sampford and Aller in chief (Fees, p782). It continued in the Peverell family until the death of the last male, Thomas, in 1300. His estates being divided between his three sisters, Sampford passed to Margery, wife of Elias Cotel. The manor was inherited by Oliver de Dinham by 1341, although the three sisters of Thomas Dinham are mentioned as holders in 1346 (FA, p338). In 1393 Sir Wuilliam Asthorpe was lord; and on his death in 1399 the manor was granted to John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset, from whom it descended to Margaret, Countess of Richmond and Derby, mother of Henry VII (OJR, Supp, pp52-53). A house (The Old Rectory) said to have been built by Lady Margaret partly stands (Pevsner, p716). Sir Amias Paulet purchased the manor from Henry VIII, and the manor remained in his family until 1806, when the then Earl Paulett began to sell the land and the manor. In 1822 it was the property of Mr Thomas Hellings of Tiverton. Reichel (Supp, p20) has part of this manor lying in Tiverton hundred (Lysons, p432). White does not mention the manor in 1850. some middle ages info
Sampford Peverell* [status: a] in Sampford Peverell parish and Halberton hundred (EPNS, p551).
It appears in DB as Sanforde, held by Roger de Bully or Buslei, as a result of his wife being granted it by the queen (DB 27,1). In the reign of Henry I it was granted to William Peverell of Essex and Matilda his sister, who granted it to the antecedents of Hugh Peverell, who held it with Aller Peverell and Karswell in Broadhembury in 1212 in return for one knight's service (Fees, p96). In 1242 Hugh Peverell held three quarters of a fee in Sampford and Aller in chief (Fees, p782). It continued in the Peverell family until the death of the last male, Thomas, in 1300. His estates being divided between his three sisters, Sampford passed to Margery, wife of Elias Cotel. The manor was inherited by Oliver de Dinham by 1341, although the three sisters of Thomas Dinham are mentioned as holders in 1346 (FA, p338). In 1393 Sir Wuilliam Asthorpe was lord; and on his death in 1399 the manor was granted to John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset, from whom it descended to Margaret, Countess of Richmond and Derby, mother of Henry VII (OJR, Supp, pp52-53). A house (The Old Rectory) said to have been built by Lady Margaret partly stands (Pevsner, p716). Sir Amias Paulet purchased the manor from Henry VIII, and the manor remained in his family until 1806, when the then Earl Paulett began to sell the land and the manor. In 1822 it was the property of Mr Thomas Hellings of Tiverton. Reichel (Supp, p20) has part of this manor lying in Tiverton hundred (Lysons, p432). White does not mention the manor in 1850. some middle ages info
Woah, now this could get very interesting with G Griffindor being related to S Slytherin. Hmmm... this is definitely making my head spin. I could see it happening though with the way JK does things. Why is it the Founder's could not have been distantly related? And if not all of them, why not two? Ahhh this is going to aggrivate me! But not in a bad way! Great Job finding all this stuff.... all of you impress me!
Wow! Good Researching! Could this mean that quite possibly Harry may actually be related to DD, GG and possibly the Weasleys? Or maybe even some one from Slytherine?
Wow! Good Researching! Could this mean that quite possibly Harry may actually be related to DD, GG and possibly the Weasleys? Or maybe even some one from Slytherine?
JK has stated that Harry is not a descendent of GG. (which is good then, because I don't want him to be at all related to Ginny) I do believe that DD and the Weasley's are related. AND if what this is hinting at is true (somehow Slyth. and Grif. are related... well then LV and DD are related. Distantly, but still.) I doubt that S & G are related, I still think that LV would have wanted the ring just because it was something of one of the Founders, but I'm definitley pulling for DD & the Weasley's being related!
Assuming that Gryffindor and Slytherin have a common ancestor, wouldn't it be ironic if Snape chose not to go into Gryffindor the way that Harry chose not to go into Slytherin, and the rift is partially healed by a Gryffindor going into Slytherin, and a Slytherin going into Gryffindor. Each possesses the traits of the other house. They turn out to be distant cousins due to the Peverell link.
Actually.... you just made me think of something. There is another thread that is getting close to connecting Lilly and Snape as relatives. I forget which one though. Hmmm.. maybe though it is James and Snape who (thru Snapes mothers side) are related.... I'm going to try and find it! I could be grasping at straws (okay I'll face it... I am grasping at straws, but it will kill sometime that I have left until Book 7!!!)
i think that this is definitely leading to a Slytherin/Griffindor connection. I has been hundreds of years since the school was founded, and i don't think that it is stretching it to believe that at some point a descendent og G and S married. Surnames aren't really the important connection though because any marriage thru the woman's side would change the surname. We know that the Weasley's are related to the Blacks so even Tonks is related to them.
hmm but WHY is it important that gryffandor and slytherin may be related? THats what i want to know. It must be important somehow
edited for awful spelling
edited for awful spelling
I think the only importance is understanding the Peverell connection with the Guants having the ring.
QUOTE(tonksrocks @ Sep. 17 2005,16:09 )
hmm but WHY is it important that gryffandor and slytherin may be related? THats what i want to know. It must be important somehow
Maybe, if the Peverells were related to Gryffindor, Voldemort would be satisfied using the RING as the Gryffindor Relic. Which would mean "Something of Gryffindor or Ravenclaw's" could be simplified to "Something of Ravenclaw's".
:ponder:
QUOTE(Katessence @ Sep. 17 2005,6:36 am)
]
They are extremely similar, almost a mirror image, except for the background. Very good sleuthing.
They are extremely similar, almost a mirror image, except for the background. Very good sleuthing.
Check out the link below, another pic. The colors are actually the same:
http://www.leakylounge.com/cgi-bin....y438374
Thanks, dopeydwarf.
hmmmm I think you guys are on to something here...It can't be a coincidence that the coat of arms are almost exactly the same...unless it's just a red herring, I hope it's not though!
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